Appropriate topics ?

[Rayleigh boy]

Are we allowed to discuss the success, or otherwise of SUFC's management of the commercial issues surrounding the development of the SUFC playing staff ?

In particular the ability of the management/ownership to leverage maximum revenues from the sale of players ?

 

[Mr. Benedict]

Aha, here's Rayleigh Boy wanting to moan about a certain ex-player's sale price again.

Get over it.

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

You can if you like, although it's as well to remember that it's no use crying over spilt milk.

:rolleyes:

 

[Rayleigh boy]

a shame but it seems that there is no possiblity of a reasoned discussion - I guess everyone is just still too emotional -

funny how much vitriol is directed my way over this -

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

vitriol

Spilt milk...?! Hardly the most caustic thing ever said on here...

:p

 

[Jam_Man]

a shame but it seems that there is no possiblity of a reasoned discussion - I guess everyone is just still too emotional -

funny how much vitriol is directed my way over this -

Everyone here told you throughout the whole saga that your 4million was unrealistic now you are coming on to complain.

We did tell you so, over and over again.

Just because you wanted 4 million doesnt make Freddy worth it.

Sharp went for around the same amount so we hardly got ripped off and if Freddy is the player you say he is when he gets sold on for 4 million in the future we will get a huge slice of it.

 

[Groyne Strain]

I've just done a google search. Did you know, guys and gals, that Southend United F. C. actually existed before Freddy Eastwood scored 3 goals in a 4-2 win over Swansea in 2004? Amazing isn't it?

What's equally amazing is that apparently the club still exists after he's gone. I can't believe everyone at the club hasn't just packed up and gone home.

Like I say, amazing what you find on this information superhighway thingy innit.

 

[Blue Streak]

To be fair I think this subject goes deeper than the "f" word and I am more than happy NOT to discuss that anymore because, i agree, its in the past now and has become a bit boring. But it seems to me that as the length of a persons current contract partly determines the leaverage we have, why are we only offering our current crop of players very short term contracts whereas the new ones get 2 or 3 years ? We surely need to evaluate who our most valuable assets are (based on who we have had potential approaches for or has commanded favourable media interest,etc.,) and tie them to longer contracts. I dont think we are doing this though are we ? A number of signings in the market recently have been 4 year deals. Are these clubs being more clever than us ?

 

[Jam_Man]

I dont think we are doing this though are we ? A number of signings in the market recently have been 4 year deals. Are these clubs being more clever than us ?

Freddy had 4 years though and other players like Paynter, Clarke etc were given 3 year deals I believe.

Its ok offering a player you pay 2 million pounds for a 4 year deal, not so clever to offer a player you get for 30k.

I cant see that anything was done wrong with Freddy and Id be interested to know Rayleigh Boys strategy of how we would have got more than we did.

 

[Blue Streak]

Isnt that a contradiction though Jam Man ? Youre saying we offered Fred a 4 year deal but we didnt pay £2m for him. We paid £100k ? I dont see that the price you pay for a player should really come into it. If it does then why did we pay more for Nicky Bailey but offer him less years on his contract than Fred got ?
If you rate a player highly enough and think that he may be worth more in the future then surely offering a 4 year deal makes sense ? It shouldnt matter how much you have paid his previous club for him.

 

[overseas shrimper]

It also depends how long a contract a player wants to sign. Not all players are happy with the longest contract offered (eg. Hooper).

 

[wolf1]

I hope you don’t mind me getting involved in this topic, but we had exactly the same problem ( and I'm sure they do everywhere ) with some of our players last season. Unfortunately, the power is all with the players at the moment. As soon as Eastwood said he wanted to leave the clubs interested could sit back and wait for Ron Martin to blink. For all the initial denial it is now accepted here that we have paid £1.5m with the rest to follow in clauses, if he scores and we get promoted. £4m for a wantaway league 1 player going into the final year of his contract is laughable in all honesty and I think with the clauses and potential sell on fee you haven't done that badly out of this. It isn’t ideal, but at the end of the day if people arent willing to pay a price you have in your mind you have to make a choice. Ron Martin made that call and accepted our bid. At least now Steve Tilson and Southend have the opportunity to reinvest some of the cash and strengthen for the coming campaign.

 

[Jam_Man]

Isnt that a contradiction though Jam Man ? Youre saying we offered Fred a 4 year deal but we didnt pay £2m for him. We paid £100k ? I dont see that the price you pay for a player should really come into it. If it does then why did we pay more for Nicky Bailey but offer him less years on his contract than Fred got ?

That may well be due to the fact he was given a contract after blowing everyone away on loan and his value was pretty evident. After all we had seen what he could do.

Offering every player we sign a 4 year deal certainly isnt a good plan bearing in mind the financial commitment that would put on us. A player we bought for £40,000 earning £2000 a week would mean over £400,000 in wages over 4 years.

After all, would you want Harrold, who was rated as T&B for the future, sitting on a 4 year deal now when we could make the decsion in 6 months he isnt worth keeping but we would still owe him over £200k...

With hindsight its easy to say who we should have offered 4 year deals to and who should be getting 2 years but otherwise its more of a challenge.

 

[J]

4 Mil, was nowhere unrealistic, i am fully with you on this RB.

 

[Jam_Man]

4 Mil, was nowhere unrealistic, i am fully with you on this RB.

So do you think Billy Sharp was also undersold ?

With the fact that Eastwoods closest "rival" was sold for 2 million, and in the absence of any interest from any premiership clubs or any club willing to pay more than 2 million what would have been the strategy to sell him for 4 million ?


I personally think 1.5 was 500k too low, however I cant see how we would have got any more than that.

 

[Rayleigh boy]

I cant see that anything was done wrong with Freddy and Id be interested to know Rayleigh Boys strategy of how we would have got more than we did.

some of what concerns me us the timing of the deal which was sort of early -
looking at how transfer activity has intensified this week -

- and some of the handling of the deal itself - where whats at stake is getting the best possible benefit for SUFC -

obviously as a complete outsider i know nothing and there is part of this conversation that is sort of playing a game but no reason not to have an intelligent conversation (what this board is sort of famous for at times) about it -

- Was i the only person who found the "announcements" on the OS an indication of how negotiations went - perhaps RM had his bluff called and went belly up -

- and i was just irritated by Tilsons remark about having to spend too much time on the phone dealing with it - its a lot of money with big implications for the future of the club so if you have to focus on it for a couple of weeks so what -

- and everyone accepts that the player concerned wants away and we all want to wish him well but if SUFC got another 500 k for messing him about a bit - all to the good -

- and although its a subject close to everyones heart and why not have a different views expressed on here which was a bit of a concern when JCRs post about tranfers was closed -

- and if there are implied criticisms of RM and sir steve in this i reckon they can take it - they are in well paid positions and my 20 quid a game is as good
as anyone elses -

and at the end of the day i am supposed to selling ****e for the boss and spending time on shrimperzone is supposed to be a relief -

 

[wolf1]

So do you think Billy Sharp was also undersold ?

With the fact that Eastwoods closest "rival" was sold for 2 million, and in the absence of any interest from any premiership clubs or any club willing to pay more than 2 million what would have been the strategy to sell him for 4 million ?


I personally think 1.5 was 500k too low, however I cant see how we would have got any more than that.

Ron Martin said that Norwich had bid £1.5m. Peter Grant denied he had made a bid for Eastwood only days after this statement. When Charlton signed Todorov, we announced we had agreed terms with Freddy hours later, Ron Martin then tried to claim Charlton would be re-entering the bidding – obviously trying to get some more money from us – but it proved futile as he had to change his statement later. I have to say we are very happy with the reported figure and if things work out you will get the extra £500k this year or next. I cant see us selling Eastwood if we are successful though?

For those still claiming £4m was realistic, I think you should remember that apart from Wolves, Charlton and possibly Norwich – there was no other interest in Freddy Eastwood. Ron Martin is a businessman, he is not a magician.

 

[J]

Yes Bs, was also signed for a cracking deal..

 

[Jam_Man]

Yes Bs, was also signed for a cracking deal..

Thats not an answer CSJ !

Its very easy to simply say we should have got more but Im not seeing any justification as to why or how we could have got more when he only had a years contract left.

Its now clear that Freddy wanted to go to Wolves and no where else.

We had a bargaining chip with Charlton that Ron Martin tried to use late that evening, however Freddy must have pulled that rug from beneath him as he has said he rejected the chance to even speak with them. One minute Ron was saying he wasnt for sale, the next he had gone which suggests that he had no other option than to accept Wolves' offer.

With no bargaining power left we had little leverage to play Wolves against Charlton....

 

[Rayleigh boy]

Hey Jam Man -

What do you say ? - RM and Tilson bottled it ? - the Wolves fans are treating Jez Moxey as a bloody hero for pulling off the steal of the season -

and having a board full of supporters screaming "take the money" was no help at all -