Was Atkinson's challenge worthy of a red?

[RobM]

It's quite simple, just answer the poll!

 

[rigsby]

I have voted but it now means unfortunately Lord Football won't give me the time of day.

 

[OldBlueLady]

Wasn't there, but looked a red to me on TV. Could have gone either way, but certainly the type of challenge that makes a ref reach for the red.

 

[kentblues]

Never in a million years- even in the pathetic new world of football where tackling is frowned upon.
please, I mean please!!! When will this madness end- and the pen!!! I am desperately trying to rationalise why I a referee who must have been intimidated by far bigger crowds can fail so spectacularly. Bring back those park refs from L2 all is forgiven.

 

[kentblues]

Wasn't there, but looked a red to me on TV. Could have gone either way, but certainly the type of challenge that makes a ref reach for the red.

And whilst we are at it let's book McGoashan for diving- sorry I don't get angry often but no way

 

[5scoops]

Dived in late never a red

 

[onceknownasrab]

There is a lot of vitriol for the ref but he didn't disallow any goals for us. Bottom line is he was poor and we were not good enough on the day. We huffed and puffed and may have been a tad unfortunate but its just one of those days. It happens. Oxford on Tuesday affords us the opportunity to put a better foot forward and consign today to the history books.

 

[rlb999]

Football is killing itself. In the premier league, where that ref comes from, that challenge is a red. Why, I don't know. We're turning it into a non contact sport.

 

[ace]

No malicious intent but these prigs unlikely to rescind it. Last week definite malicious intent and was rescinded. No wonder fans have no faith in the authorities.

 

[rigsby]

The camera angle makes it look worse. The ball was actually bouncing so if you freeze the picture at the actual point of impact you can see both players feet are off the ground challenging for the ball. Will does not catch his front foot and when the player goes down he holds his back leg with customary pitch slapping....Always a sign that their has barely been contact.

The straight red was never designed for such a tackle, look at the Wimbledon one on Anton if you want a good example of red, which I think was only a second yellow. Will was not going 'over the top', nor was he launching and landing with any weight on the players ankle. If you watch the Oldham highlights, Will makes an excellent tackle in the second half in almost the same way and area of the pitch. Bolger's deliberate lunge on Cox when he was clean through the other week was more dangerous and calculated than Will's tackle.

What you don't see on camera is the Millwall charging out of their seats into the walkway area behind the hoardings, which of course they love to do and are allowed to by their stewards. Still I don't blame their fans that's their job, we are after all at the Den, even if it is 'new'. If you watch the TV clip again you can just see one off their players going to the lad on the ground. What it doesn't show after is the same player been told to stay down even after the red card was shown, just to make the ref think he got it exactly right.

More disappointing was the fact that none of our players tried to protect Atkinson. We may not agree with it but even in the last few weeks at RH refs have been reaching for a second yellow when the away team have kind of blocked the refs run and gave him 'thinking time' and they have changed their mind. Again maybe that was just enough to make the ref think well I don't owe them anything so hence we never got the clear penalty later on.

 

[mrsblue]

I have voted but it now means unfortunately Lord Football won't give me the time of day.

Oh no,Lord Football will ignore you,that's bad very bad.

 

[OldBlueLady]

Fair enough Rigsby, you were there, I wasn't.

 

[Somerset Ex-TTB]

Totally agree except Wordsworth started talking to the ref as I think he knew what was coming. He could of been a bit more in his face though.

 

[Firestorm]

There would be pandemonium on here if that foul had been committed against Lenny and only resulted on a red.
Considering the foul and subsequent card is in respect of the action and not the effect, the subsequent antics of the Fouled player should not influence the refs decision, primarily because he should have made his mind up by then.
see the incident, stop play, make decision, quick referral to assistant , inform players of decision..
any delays will primarily be down to players interfering with the ref before he informs the player.
he has no replays ,no pause facility , just more traing and experience at the role than anyone on the pitch and all bar a few in the ground.
That said, the McGlashans incident looked like a pen , but I must admit, I was lookin for a pen at the first time of watching rather than just a passage of play

 

[Lord Football]

I have voted but it now means unfortunately Lord Football won't give me the time of day.

You seem to think I did in the first place.

 

[rlb999]

Fair enough Rigsby, you were there, I wasn't.

Being there didn't help on this one - we were all behind the man being tackled so it was hard to see. The TV angle is better.

 

[rigsby]

There would be pandemonium on here if that foul had been committed against Lenny and only resulted on a red.
Considering the foul and subsequent card is in respect of the action and not the effect, the subsequent antics of the Fouled player should not influence the refs decision, primarily because he should have made his mind up by then.
see the incident, stop play, make decision, quick referral to assistant , inform players of decision..
any delays will primarily be down to players interfering with the ref before he informs the player.
he has no replays ,no pause facility , just more traing and experience at the role than anyone on the pitch and all bar a few in the ground.
That said, the McGlashans incident looked like a pen , but I must admit, I was lookin for a pen at the first time of watching rather than just a passage of play

Unfortunately that's exactly what ref's do go on and it seems many fans. Wordsworth was tackled later on in almost the same way for a bouncing ball, in the same area of the pitch but rode the challenge. So no card. Earlier Fortune had been caught in the face with a high kick right in front of the Millwall boys. Their player could clearly see MAF so he knew it was dangerous. Would have loved to see the reaction if it was the other way round and the ref may well have gone for a red card again.

Talking of the McG penalty shout. If you watch the follow up had Demi had his PL head on he would have just toed the ball jumped in agony and got a free kick and card for what was a perfectly good strong challenge. Which somehow in the modern era we seem to frown on.

 

[Lord Football]

Right, with Riggers' words ringing in my ears.....

What you actually see is the following

1. A tackle that is high, studs up, late, misses the ball, reckless. Will is not in control of it. It is exactly the type of tackle the red card was designed for. It is a red card all day long.....

2. The referee had the red card out of his packet pocket immediately. There is no case for arguing intimidation. And lets be honest here, he does far bigger and far nastier crowds than yesterday,

3. Whatever happens with fans, players after the card is issued is of no consequence.

4. Not only do I think an appeal is pointless, it may even fall into the bracket of frivolous and cost Will another game.

The bottom line here is if one of theirs had done that to one of ours and a red card had not been shown, we'd all, to a person be rightly screaming about it.

Now, if there was a thread about the penalty appeal.......

 

[rigsby]

Right, with Riggers' words ringing in my ears.....

What you actually see is the following

1. A tackle that is high, studs up, late, misses the ball, reckless. Will is not in control of it. It is exactly the type of tackle the red card was designed for. It is a red card all day long.....

2. The referee had the red card out of his packet pocket immediately. There is no case for arguing intimidation. And lets be honest here, he does far bigger and far nastier crowds than yesterday,

3. Whatever happens with fans, players after the card is issued is of no consequence.

4. Not only do I think an appeal is pointless, it may even fall into the bracket of frivolous and cost Will another game.

The bottom line here is if one of theirs had done that to one of ours and a red card had not been shown, we'd all, to a person be rightly screaming about it.

Now, if there was a thread about the penalty appeal.......

That's what you see as an ex ref. The reality of it is both players are going for a lose ball which is bouncing. Will is no higher than the Millwall player, who is also not in control if you see where the ball goes after. So its a 50/50 with both players going for the ball exactly the kind of tackle the red card was not designed for

Its not reckless because there's no clear evidence Will even catches him, again the prove is when the player isn't sure which leg to grab as part of the act.

Of course refs react to the crowd and other players what ever level they are at. Any one who says they don't I might be tempted to say I won't give them the time of day. Then again who would have the cheek to say that on a football forum.

 

[superblue24]

I think too many opinions are being influenced by the fact that it was against one of our own players. Boot on the other foot I doubt we'd see as much outrage we'd be talking about how dangerous it was against one of our own.

What I don''t get is why players still have to launch themselves studs up into challenges in this day and age of risk that they may be sent off, especially when the play is in the middle of the park.... The laws have changed, we no longer live in the 70s. I would love for it to go back to a physical game, but this is where we are....