The Captain Critical

[Barry.C]

[SUP]
Some of you may well have seen this, but I thought it worthy of discussion and apologies in advance for length !!

Apparently one of the favourite current reads amongst leading International coaches ( across all sports ) is " The Captains Class". It was even acknowledged by Southgate in influencing his choice of Eric Dier as Captain against Germany. The book and extensive research involved was about finding the key component that sustained and made teams great, by examining the best teams in history. The unusual finding is that tactics, fitness, coaching etc for all their importance, are not as critical as Captaincy, if you want your team to be great and sustain it for any length of time !

Great eras time and time again were found to revolve around TOWERING captains, although the expected CHARACTER TRAITS of the best were sometimes unexpected. Exploring hundreds of sports teams throughout history the writer ( a sportsman himself ) concluded Captaincy is the first and most significant step in creating a culture that sustains success. He concluded that Englands problem is the propensity to always end up with one of 2 models, either the tough guy John Terry type or the so called star player ( Rooney )
The Captain though should be able to lead the players every hour, every day, taking responsibility for every problem that comes along and doing all the thankless group tasks

The key QUALITIES were found to be....

1. RELENTLESS in their effort regardless of match or situation2
2. SACRIFICING ..like playing in any position.
3 APPROACHABLE .. can reach?be approached by any player through good communication ( not just tub thumping )
4. HUMBLE unpretentious , not needy of praise
5. POSSESS EMOTIONAL CONTROL Not lose it on or off the pitch, but still able to stand up for the team, never doing ANYTHING to harm the team
6. A CERTAIN INDEPENDENCE..Willing to push back, challenge the coach , Manager, Owner appropriately where necessary, without looking for a row
Apparently Eric Dier fits the bill

Do we have any one close? Who would you rate now fits the bill, or in the past> Do you think this is all codswallop and the findings cant be true that Captaincy outweighs coaching in terms of likely success ?

Told you it was long ! Over to you [/SUP]

 

[danburyshrimper]

John White fits every single one of the above qualities ..........

Number 5 seems to rule out the likes of Timlin or Ferdinand .

 

[Stuart W]

Considering I don't think Dier is a long term England prospect, let alone captain, then either the book is a waste of rainforest, or (just as likely), the book may have a valid point but Southgate is somewhat lacking in ability/availability to match required characteristics to current players.

In his defence, I do think there is a dearth in potentials England captains, unlike previous eras when Moore, Robson, Adams etc were shoe-ins for the job.

 

[davewebbsbrain]

[SUP]
Some of you may well have seen this, but I thought it worthy of discussion and apologies in advance for length !!

Apparently one of the favourite current reads amongst leading International coaches ( across all sports ) is " The Captains Class". It was even acknowledged by Southgate in influencing his choice of Eric Dier as Captain against Germany. The book and extensive research involved was about finding the key component that sustained and made teams great, by examining the best teams in history. The unusual finding is that tactics, fitness, coaching etc for all their importance, are not as critical as Captaincy, if you want your team to be great and sustain it for any length of time !

Great eras time and time again were found to revolve around TOWERING captains, although the expected CHARACTER TRAITS of the best were sometimes unexpected. Exploring hundreds of sports teams throughout history the writer ( a sportsman himself ) concluded Captaincy is the first and most significant step in creating a culture that sustains success. He concluded that Englands problem is the propensity to always end up with one of 2 models, either the tough guy John Terry type or the so called star player ( Rooney )
The Captain though should be able to lead the players every hour, every day, taking responsibility for every problem that comes along and doing all the thankless group tasks

The key QUALITIES were found to be....

1. RELENTLESS in their effort regardless of match or situation2
2. SACRIFICING ..like playing in any position.
3 APPROACHABLE .. can reach?be approached by any player through good communication ( not just tub thumping )
4. HUMBLE unpretentious , not needy of praise
5. POSSESS EMOTIONAL CONTROL Not lose it on or off the pitch, but still able to stand up for the team, never doing ANYTHING to harm the team
6. A CERTAIN INDEPENDENCE..Willing to push back, challenge the coach , Manager, Owner appropriately where necessary, without looking for a row
Apparently Eric Dier fits the bill

Do we have any one close? Who would you rate now fits the bill, or in the past> Do you think this is all codswallop and the findings cant be true that Captaincy outweighs coaching in terms of likely success ?

Told you it was long ! Over to you [/SUP]

I wouldn't recommend doing this at Southend at the moment, you will be on the next boat out of here

 

[Ricky Otto]

John White fits every single one of the above qualities ..........

Number 5 seems to rule out the likes of Timlin or Ferdinand .

Yet everybody thought he was a weak captain, because he wasn't shouting out instructions on the pitch. The guy is a great professional and certainly someone I would follow into battle. Although I don't think Anton has been a bad captain

 

[Bromley Blue]

[SUP]
Some of you may well have seen this, but I thought it worthy of discussion and apologies in advance for length !!

Apparently one of the favourite current reads amongst leading International coaches ( across all sports ) is " The Captains Class". It was even acknowledged by Southgate in influencing his choice of Eric Dier as Captain against Germany. The book and extensive research involved was about finding the key component that sustained and made teams great, by examining the best teams in history. The unusual finding is that tactics, fitness, coaching etc for all their importance, are not as critical as Captaincy, if you want your team to be great and sustain it for any length of time !

Great eras time and time again were found to revolve around TOWERING captains, although the expected CHARACTER TRAITS of the best were sometimes unexpected. Exploring hundreds of sports teams throughout history the writer ( a sportsman himself ) concluded Captaincy is the first and most significant step in creating a culture that sustains success. He concluded that Englands problem is the propensity to always end up with one of 2 models, either the tough guy John Terry type or the so called star player ( Rooney )
The Captain though should be able to lead the players every hour, every day, taking responsibility for every problem that comes along and doing all the thankless group tasks

The key QUALITIES were found to be....

1. RELENTLESS in their effort regardless of match or situation2
2. SACRIFICING ..like playing in any position.
3 APPROACHABLE .. can reach?be approached by any player through good communication ( not just tub thumping )
4. HUMBLE unpretentious , not needy of praise
5. POSSESS EMOTIONAL CONTROL Not lose it on or off the pitch, but still able to stand up for the team, never doing ANYTHING to harm the team
6. A CERTAIN INDEPENDENCE..Willing to push back, challenge the coach , Manager, Owner appropriately where necessary, without looking for a row
Apparently Eric Dier fits the bill

Do we have any one close? Who would you rate now fits the bill, or in the past> Do you think this is all codswallop and the findings cant be true that Captaincy outweighs coaching in terms of likely success ?

Told you it was long ! Over to you [/SUP]

For me this is just a description of Ryan Leonard's character traits. Why he's not become our captain by now is beyond me.

 

[danburyshrimper]

Lenny has taken the armband a few times.

This could be a potential carrot to dangle him when his contract runs out .... 4 year deal + captains armband + control of the changing room boombox + he gets prioriy to do his "Johnny Metgod" free kicks anywhere he likes.

 

[Barry.C]

So far I agree Lenny and White look closest to the criteria , with Ferdys recent outburst not looking so great, although the bloke has been through the mill a bit of late .Maybe Ben who is also an experienced and well respected pro and Cox. I assume if he played enough Michael Turner could be in the frame/.
Presumably Barratts outburst had an impact as did Prossers, but any Manager with a confident ego ought to be able to cope with a fair and decent challenge carried out well, unless you have some sort of God complex

 

[Zeuss]

[SUP]
Some of you may well have seen this, but I thought it worthy of discussion and apologies in advance for length !!

Apparently one of the favourite current reads amongst leading International coaches ( across all sports ) is " The Captains Class". It was even acknowledged by Southgate in influencing his choice of Eric Dier as Captain against Germany. The book and extensive research involved was about finding the key component that sustained and made teams great, by examining the best teams in history. The unusual finding is that tactics, fitness, coaching etc for all their importance, are not as critical as Captaincy, if you want your team to be great and sustain it for any length of time !

Great eras time and time again were found to revolve around TOWERING captains, although the expected CHARACTER TRAITS of the best were sometimes unexpected. Exploring hundreds of sports teams throughout history the writer ( a sportsman himself ) concluded Captaincy is the first and most significant step in creating a culture that sustains success. He concluded that Englands problem is the propensity to always end up with one of 2 models, either the tough guy John Terry type or the so called star player ( Rooney )
The Captain though should be able to lead the players every hour, every day, taking responsibility for every problem that comes along and doing all the thankless group tasks

The key QUALITIES were found to be....

1. RELENTLESS in their effort regardless of match or situation2
2. SACRIFICING ..like playing in any position.
3 APPROACHABLE .. can reach?be approached by any player through good communication ( not just tub thumping )
4. HUMBLE unpretentious , not needy of praise
5. POSSESS EMOTIONAL CONTROL Not lose it on or off the pitch, but still able to stand up for the team, never doing ANYTHING to harm the team
6. A CERTAIN INDEPENDENCE..Willing to push back, challenge the coach , Manager, Owner appropriately where necessary, without looking for a row
Apparently Eric Dier fits the bill

Do we have any one close? Who would you rate now fits the bill, or in the past> Do you think this is all codswallop and the findings cant be true that Captaincy outweighs coaching in terms of likely success ?

Told you it was long ! Over to you [/SUP]

Most definitely codswallop!

 

[AndyT]

Fair comments, but I've often wondered how big a role a captain plays in football, anyway.

Most of the time, there's a feeling that every player kind of supports each other, in any given situation and keeps the team spirit going. All have a role to play in the area they are playing in. For example, Ferdy might be the lead role at the back, but I doubt he has much say in what's going on upfront in a given match.

Tactics tend to be the remit of the manager/coach and the players follow these. Same with any system changes during a match. I can't see a captain having much input.

In short, points 1 to 6 pretty much apply to any player and what they are expected to do, I would say.

 

[rigsby]

LoL we have a captain of one of our teams at Rayleigh CC who fails on all 6 of those qualities and a lot more. A few on here will know who I mean.:winking:

The sad thing is he will still get one the teams next season.

 

[OldBlueLady]

These qualities fit both Lenny and Johnny White perfectly, I think Lenny will be happier having the armband after getting a win against Colchester under his belt as he didn't have the best of records with it.

I always said that John was a good captain, even though many said he wasn't vocal enough.

 

[Mick]

Wow. Take "Hal Mason's Official History of the Us" (see other thread) off my Christmas list and replace it with this twaddle.

The book and extensive research involved was about finding the key component that sustained and made teams great, by examining the best teams in history. The unusual finding is that tactics, fitness, coaching etc for all their importance, are not as critical as Captaincy, if you want your team to be great and sustain it for any length of time !The book and extensive research involved was about finding the key component that sustained and made teams great, by examining the best teams in history. The unusual finding is that tactics, fitness, coaching etc for all their importance, are not as critical as Captaincy, if you want your team to be great and sustain it for any length of time ! - straight from pseuds corner.

In a game like cricket where game-changing decisions are made virtually every minute, the skills and judgement of the captain are paramount (as Essex found out when they got this so very right last season). But in football ? Really ?
How much time and money was spend (wasted?) on this "research" ?

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

[SUP]
Some of you may well have seen this, but I thought it worthy of discussion and apologies in advance for length !!

Apparently one of the favourite current reads amongst leading International coaches ( across all sports ) is " The Captains Class". It was even acknowledged by Southgate in influencing his choice of Eric Dier as Captain against Germany. The book and extensive research involved was about finding the key component that sustained and made teams great, by examining the best teams in history. The unusual finding is that tactics, fitness, coaching etc for all their importance, are not as critical as Captaincy, if you want your team to be great and sustain it for any length of time !

Great eras time and time again were found to revolve around TOWERING captains, although the expected CHARACTER TRAITS of the best were sometimes unexpected. Exploring hundreds of sports teams throughout history the writer ( a sportsman himself ) concluded Captaincy is the first and most significant step in creating a culture that sustains success. He concluded that Englands problem is the propensity to always end up with one of 2 models, either the tough guy John Terry type or the so called star player ( Rooney )
The Captain though should be able to lead the players every hour, every day, taking responsibility for every problem that comes along and doing all the thankless group tasks

The key QUALITIES were found to be....

1. RELENTLESS in their effort regardless of match or situation2
2. SACRIFICING ..like playing in any position.
3 APPROACHABLE .. can reach?be approached by any player through good communication ( not just tub thumping )
4. HUMBLE unpretentious , not needy of praise
5. POSSESS EMOTIONAL CONTROL Not lose it on or off the pitch, but still able to stand up for the team, never doing ANYTHING to harm the team
6. A CERTAIN INDEPENDENCE..Willing to push back, challenge the coach , Manager, Owner appropriately where necessary, without looking for a row
Apparently Eric Dier fits the bill

Do we have any one close? Who would you rate now fits the bill, or in the past> Do you think this is all codswallop and the findings cant be true that Captaincy outweighs coaching in terms of likely success ?

Told you it was long ! Over to you [/SUP]

I tend to think what makes captains seem TOWERING in hindsight is that they won lots of matches.

I don't think Dier is a bad shout as England captain and Leonard fits the first 5 for Southend.

 

[AndyT]

Wow. Take "Hal Mason's Official History of the Us" (see other thread) off my Christmas list and replace it with this twaddle.

The book and extensive research involved was about finding the key component that sustained and made teams great, by examining the best teams in history. The unusual finding is that tactics, fitness, coaching etc for all their importance, are not as critical as Captaincy, if you want your team to be great and sustain it for any length of time !The book and extensive research involved was about finding the key component that sustained and made teams great, by examining the best teams in history. The unusual finding is that tactics, fitness, coaching etc for all their importance, are not as critical as Captaincy, if you want your team to be great and sustain it for any length of time ! - straight from pseuds corner.

In a game like cricket where game-changing decisions are made virtually every minute, the skills and judgement of the captain are paramount (as Essex found out when they got this so very right last season). But in football ? Really ?
How much time and money was spend (wasted?) on this "research" ?

Spot on 'Mick'.

Cricket is the perfect example of how captaincy can sometimes win and lose matches.

Football is a completely different dinosaur, like you say. The captain really only tosses the coin at the kick-off and is a token figurehead during the game.

It's up to all 11 players to put in the 100% shift. If one of them isn't, it's the manager that makes any decisions about them, not the captain.

 

[united we stand]

[SUP]
Some of you may well have seen this, but I thought it worthy of discussion and apologies in advance for length !!

Apparently one of the favourite current reads amongst leading International coaches ( across all sports ) is " The Captains Class". It was even acknowledged by Southgate in influencing his choice of Eric Dier as Captain against Germany. The book and extensive research involved was about finding the key component that sustained and made teams great, by examining the best teams in history. The unusual finding is that tactics, fitness, coaching etc for all their importance, are not as critical as Captaincy, if you want your team to be great and sustain it for any length of time !

Great eras time and time again were found to revolve around TOWERING captains, although the expected CHARACTER TRAITS of the best were sometimes unexpected. Exploring hundreds of sports teams throughout history the writer ( a sportsman himself ) concluded Captaincy is the first and most significant step in creating a culture that sustains success. He concluded that Englands problem is the propensity to always end up with one of 2 models, either the tough guy John Terry type or the so called star player ( Rooney )
The Captain though should be able to lead the players every hour, every day, taking responsibility for every problem that comes along and doing all the thankless group tasks

The key QUALITIES were found to be....

1. RELENTLESS in their effort regardless of match or situation2
2. SACRIFICING ..like playing in any position.
3 APPROACHABLE .. can reach?be approached by any player through good communication ( not just tub thumping )
4. HUMBLE unpretentious , not needy of praise
5. POSSESS EMOTIONAL CONTROL Not lose it on or off the pitch, but still able to stand up for the team, never doing ANYTHING to harm the team
6. A CERTAIN INDEPENDENCE..Willing to push back, challenge the coach , Manager, Owner appropriately where necessary, without looking for a row
Apparently Eric Dier fits the bill

Do we have any one close? Who would you rate now fits the bill, or in the past> Do you think this is all codswallop and the findings cant be true that Captaincy outweighs coaching in terms of likely success ?

Told you it was long ! Over to you [/SUP]

Makes sense to me. I would argue that the mai. Reason some people disagree is because they have only seen Bad or average captains. I recall a joe Barton interview where he acknowledged that there was far more to being captain than he realized and the 90 mins on the pitch was the easy bit and the tip of the iceberg

 

[Rayleigh boy]

i think a level of leadership is required to achieve major success and those values are hard to measure ..

Bobby Moore definitely ...

strangely i think Gascoigne sort of lead England in 90 and 96 - Lampard at Chelsea when they won the champions league ..

i think top winning sportsmen have a pyscho edge - Botham ? Flintoff ? Lewis Hamilton ?

interesting to read joey Barton on power relationships in dressing rooms ...

all good fun .. of course if i was in charge we would be in Europe by now

 

[rlb999]

I think the whole captaincy thing is given more airtime than necessary. A player like Roy Keane leads by example whether there's an arm band on his arm or not. Gazza rarely took the armband but always got his team mates going. Anton Ferdinand will instinctively try to organise that back 4 with or without the armband.
The role is largely ceremonial. Maybe it's good for some players who need a bit of smoke blowing up their backside. I'd imagine it's important to Ronaldo and seem to remember Adel Tarrabt captained QPR to promotion a while back. It also gives fans something to talk about.

 

[Bearded Shrimper]

of course if i was in charge we would be in Europe by now

bloody Remoaner!