That Rugby Book

[Slipperduke]

Ok, the book is almost finished, I'm just heading into the final stages. If you like rugby, and you have a bit of free time, all help is very much appreciated.

I'm looking for three things.

1, The all-time best XV. I figure that the more people I ask, the less chance of missing someone out!

2, Things to Say/Not To Say at the rugby

3, Great things about rugby. Ie the songs, the drinking, the pre-match rituals, anything that you'd tell a newcomer about in an effort to make him love the sport.

Contributors will feel the full wrath of my Green.

 

[Uncle Leo]

A far from exhaustive list Slip, but some key characters here:

Full backs – JPR Williams, Serge Blanco
Centres – Jeremy Guscott, Tim Horan, Phillippe Sella
Wings – Jonah Lomu, JJ Williams, David Campese, Gerald Davies
Fly half – Grant Fox, Phil Bennett, Michael Lynagh
Scrum half – Gareth Edwards, Joost van der Westhuizen, Nick Farr-Jones
Lock forwards – Martin Johnson, Colin Meads, John Eales, Willie John McBride
Back row forwards – Jean Pierre Rives, Dean Richards, Zinzan Brooke, Richie McCaw, Mervyn Davies
Hooker – Sean FitzPatrick
Props – Jason Leonard, Syd Millar

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

A far from exhaustive list Slip, but some key characters here:

Full backs – JPR Williams, Serge Blanco
Centres – Jeremy Guscott, Tim Horan, Phillippe Sella
Wings – Jonah Lomu, JJ Williams, David Campese, Gerald Davies
Fly half – Grant Fox, Phil Bennett, Michael Lynagh
Scrum half – Gareth Edwards, Joost van der Westhuizen, Nick Farr-Jones
Lock forwards – Martin Johnson, Colin Meads, John Eales, Willie John McBride
Back row forwards – Jean Pierre Rives, Dean Richards, Zinzan Brooke, Richie McCaw, Mervyn Davies
Hooker – Sean FitzPatrick
Props – Jason Leonard, Syd Millar

I thought you were a fan of the lesser rugby game Ux?

No expert, but that seems a pretty decent list.

How about that Prince Oblinksy (sp?) for an older one.
I think Richard Hill is one of the most underrated players of my life time. A whole Lions series turned on him being taken out, he was that good. He was also an absolute legend when England won the world cup.

Some of my favourite things about rugby are the scratch sides assembled by both the Baas Baas and the Lions. Those sides are just steeped in tradition: whether it is the Barbarians running it no matter what; or the Lions trying to do the unthinkable and beat a formidable foe, a task hard enough at the best of times, but trying to do it away from home with players who have never played together but bond over a tour. The legends associated with those teams will provide enough stories to fill a few books no problem.

 

[Uncle Leo]

I thought you were a fan of the lesser rugby game Ux?

No expert, but that seems a pretty decent list.

No, I prefer league ;)

However, not even the most one-eyed leaguie could (successfully) argue that RL has had a greater international impact than RU. Some of those names I mentioned are an inherent part of our national sporting consciousness. It's a simple fact that many more people will have heard of, say, JPR Williams than Billy Boston.

Good call re Richard Hill by the way.

 

[Bluesmanager]

Not an expert or anything but I'm gonna say "don't mention eggs" when talking rugby.

I may be able to confirm tommorrow - assuming I'm not in hospital recovering from the beating I may recieve. The disadvantage of living in Gloucestershire and being in a definitely pro-rugby, anti-football class...

 

[Ron Manager]

2, Things Not To Say at the rugby

Handball ref!

;)

 

[Thorpe Groyney]

In my opinion the best ever XV is well known by all in the sport. Google the names of the players in the second British Lions test v South Africa in 1974. Every Lions player selected was the best in their position and at the top of their game that day. I have not seen anybody before or since that could match any of those players that day. 28-9 to the Lions and could have been 50 - that in the days where an international side scoring 20 was rarer than a watchable episode of Crossroads.

Absolute powerhouses in the front row, like Fran Cotton, to take on the heart of every Spriongbok side. The daring, dashing, darting play of back-rower Mervyn Davies. Gareth. Say no more. Phil Bennett, Andy Irvine, the list goes on. Willie John McBride, a colossal forward, an inspiring captain, a frightening opponent, and as good and honest a gentleman you could ever wish to meet.

South Africa weren't just beaten that day, weren't just destroyed, their entire standing in the game was smashed into little pieces. It took 20 years for them to recover from that.

In these times of Springboks ruling the roost, it's probably best not to say to their supporters "Now, what about that 99 call." It will be met with either a glare of a grimace, as into their mind's eye will be the image of JPR, fists at the ready, waiting for more trouble in the Third Test whilst Moaner Van Heerden lies prostrate on the ground. Although we might just do that in a couple of months time on tour.

It's always best not to mention Irish referees to Welsh supporters, too, as they tend to blame English victories over them on such people. In fact, don't mention Dusty Hare, 1980 or the numbers 9 and 8 to them at all. They don't like it. The mere mention of association football to any rugby player, official or supporter will be met with a roll of the eyes and a 'f*** me' under their breath.

The great thing about rugby is, simply, the people involved. Almost everyone, from the clubhouse barman right up to steward at Murrayfield and then onto chairman of the IRB, has played the game in some capacity. As an example, apart from hospitality packages or touts, you can only purchase Six Nations tickets through your local club.

What you'll find, win lose or draw, is that everyone will have a pint with each other in the bar afterwards. What happens on the pitch stays on the pitch. The only fight I've ever seen at a rugby club off-pitch was at Lampeter (they hammered us 66-0), where two locals, after apparently a day on the beer, were fighting over whose pint the other was drinking. When I say fight, it was more like two drunks flapping through thin air, a source of much amusement to their wives in particular.

I would encourage any person starting to take an interest in the game to go to their local club and explain you're a newbie that's only just begun to taken an interest. You can guarantee someone will be on hand to make your first impression an excellent one and after a short while you'll be a part of the club, happy to be so, knowing you're part of the true ethos of sport.

Enjoy.

 

[Slipperduke]

Cheers chaps, that's really helpful!

 

[Slipperduke]

So nearly there now, but falling short on Great Rugby Stories. I can't talk about World Cups, but I need one more legendary tale. I've already got Call 99 (Thanks SG!) and Prince Obolensky (Thanks YB!), but I need one more. Any ideas?

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Not sure if it's a "great story" as such, but rugby snippets worth mentioning include:

* Serge Blanco - like Socrates - was a 20-a-day smoker for a great deal of his career. It seems utterly improbable in today's hyper-fit era, but he was one of the most mercurial players of his generation despite chugging through copious quantities of Gitanes.

* I presume you've made a mention of Baabaas vs. All Blacks at the Arms Park in 1973? Perhaps it's apocryhpal, but it is frequently mentioned as the greatest single game of rugby ever played - ludicrous flowing tries, with the likes of Gareth Edwards and JPR Williams (and those sideburns) galloping down the wings. The Baabaas - don't forget, a team that only ever comes together to play for the fun of the game, and which must include at least one uncapped player in ever line-up - beat the all-conquering All Blacks 23-11. Extraordinary.

* In the "best ever" list that James set out above - much of which I agree with - I'd like to chuck in a couple of additional names:

Centres - Brian O'Driscoll. Without wishing to appear to be playing too much to the gallery, any man who can drive Ireland to only the second grand slam of its history (the first since 1948) has to be a very, very special player indeed. I expect more good things from him this summer.

Wings - Chester Williams. Maybe not the greatest ever player - although a very fine one indeed. But, more importantly, the first black Springbok. Shattering that particular glass ceiling - triple reinforced and made on the High Veld by Afrikaaners - should not be underestimated.

Back-row forwards - Francois Pienaar; for bringing a tear to just about everyone's eyes in terms of the graceful way in which the Springboks won the 1995 World Cup - a magnificent statesman of rugby.

- Lawrence Bruno Nero Dallaglio... terrifyingly good; he and Richard Hill were the two best back-row forwards I've seen play in my lifetime.

Props: Os du Randt - for simply being a monster; like Jason Leonard, only scarier. And bigger.

Matt

 

[Napster]

The 1989 Lions tour takes some beating

http://www.lionsrugby.com/history/5071.php

 

[Slipperduke]

It's finished! Ha ha ha! It's finished! Woooo!

Thanks to everyone who helped, I'll be in touch closer to publication so that I can get real names for a mention in the acknowledgments. Gawd bless you all.

 

[OldBlueLady]

Well done Slip! Now, about that other little piece of writing........... ;)

 

[Crabby Shrimper]

Excellent, put me down for a copy when its available.

Bit late I know, but no mention for Shane Williams? He's a handful with the ball, but the most impressive aspect of is game is his ability to unload from just about anywhere! For a little bloke, he doesn't seem to lose possession much

 

[number11]

Don't know how you are getting on with this book Skip, but out of interest do you have much on the Lions? I was watching a preview last night, and being a (very) casual rugby follower will be following the tour. What seemed strange was how the players (current and former) were visible moved to have represented the lions and it was clear how special this was to them. It all seemed a bit strange as they are just a representative side which in other sports would be seen as a bit of fun but not the serious stuff. Given the individual home nations should be competing with the Southern hemisphere sides, why is playing for the Lions considered such a pinacle and why is the touring seen as so demanding?

 

[Slipperduke]

Don't know how you are getting on with this book Skip, but out of interest do you have much on the Lions? I was watching a preview last night, and being a (very) casual rugby follower will be following the tour. What seemed strange was how the players (current and former) were visible moved to have represented the lions and it was clear how special this was to them. It all seemed a bit strange as they are just a representative side which in other sports would be seen as a bit of fun but not the serious stuff. Given the individual home nations should be competing with the Southern hemisphere sides, why is playing for the Lions considered such a pinacle and why is the touring seen as so demanding?

Got a nice big section on the Lions actually. I didn't know too much about them either, but it's fascinating. I guess there's no comparison in football, but the closest you could get would be to have a European touring team that played South American teams. Even that doesn't quite cut it though.

Did they talk about Call 99 on the preview? That's my favourite rugby story ever.

 

[number11]

Got a nice big section on the Lions actually. I didn't know too much about them either, but it's fascinating. I guess there's no comparison in football, but the closest you could get would be to have a European touring team that played South American teams. Even that doesn't quite cut it though.

Did they talk about Call 99 on the preview? That's my favourite rugby story ever.

Agreed, that is part of what I love about Rugby, the sense of togetherness and team ethic! If you watch the program on Sky a year or so ago about the England world cup win in 2003 the passion was truly moving and demonstated a team who's complete will to win came through. To have something like the Call 99 thing in a representative Lions team shows how much being called up means, that players can put club and internation rivalries aside and be so together.

Like you I knew nothing about how they came about or what they are about but watching the program was interesting. I just find it hard to comprehend how much it seemed to mean to those involved when there is no world cup, big money prize etc at stake, and full credit to them for that.