So who goes, who stays?

Desert Shrimper · Apr 18, 2007

I've watched this tounament aghast that all the promise we thought we had after winning the Ashes has apparently vansished before our very eyes. Flintoff looks like a number 9/10 batsman, Vaughan offers nothing beyond his captaincy (which seemed avaerage at best at times) and we had the now to be expected failure from Bell, Strauss, Joyce and the hopeless Saj Mahmood.

I think it's time for a clear out of the ODI side with a whole host of youngsters being brought in to replace the serial failures. They look nervous, weak and largely pointless so let's dig up some new talent and have done with it. :mad:

Pubey · Apr 18, 2007

get rid of vaughan as captain, along with mahmood.

to be honest we don't have very much waiting in the wings. i would start freddy much higher up though as although he takes little while to get going, we need him alongside someone like bell or strauss. and also pietersen works the tail really well

bell
flintoff
strauss
joyce
collingwood
pietersen
nixon
bopara
??? - desperately need a decent fast bowler, maybe plunkers?
panesar
anderson

the one plus of the tournament was that bopara looked good

number11 · Apr 18, 2007

For me, Bell would stay as he has shown promise....perhaps as opening alongside a power player (hope Tres at some point).. KP at 3, someone in at 4 who can quickly gauge what makes a good score, Colly at 5, a hitter at 6 who can maybe get a few overs in (Ravi?), Flintoff at seven, basically as a bowler who can bat a bit, keeper at 8 (Foster, Davies, Prior), Broad or Plunkett at 9, Monty at 10, Anderson eleven. So 4 bowlers of Freddie, Anderson, Plunkett/Broad, Monty and 5th bowler a combination of bowlers who can bat.

So:

Tres, Bell, KP, AN OTHER (Strauss, Cook, Shah?), Collingwood, Bopara, Flintoff, Foster, Plunkett, Panesar and Anderson.

Only Trescothick, is over 30, with Collingwood, Flintoff and Strauss all being around next world cup. Mix in promising youngsters and dont pick anyone over 28 from here on in. identify a 20 odd man potential list of players that will be peaking for the next world cup on the sub continent and give them the experience.

Yorkshire Blue · Apr 18, 2007

I'd drop the lot of them except for Bopara and maybe Nixon and Anderson.

Either we change our schedule, or we have separate one-day and test squads. The players are already jaded and they are returning to England in time to face the West Indies between May and June for 4 tests and 3 ODIs, followed by 3 tests against India and 7 ODIs in June and September, before then jetting over to South Africa for the 20:20 in September. In November and December they are off to Sri Lanka for a further 3 tests and a ODI series. The new year then sees them hop over to New Zealand for Febraury and March, before returning to face New Zealand at home in May. In June and July we host South Africa (and pop up to Scotland), before heading off to the champions trophy in September and October. November and December are due to see us visit India and then its off to the Windies again....

Yes, the players are professionals, but if you want to get the most out of them you don't flog them into the ground. England's shocking away record in ODIs is as much to do with the fact that these are tacked onto the end of gruelling tours when the players, having given their all in the tests, are just looking forward to go home. A separate one-day squad to be flown in at the end of each test tour will be that much more focused, prepared and primed on one-day cricket.

Or alternatively, we could see how many more Marcus Trescothick's we can create.

canveyshrimper · Apr 19, 2007

Michael Vaughan has been a fine player & captain for England in the TestMatch arena, and if he is fit enough then he should continue in that role. But should relinquish both the captaincy & his place in the one day team. Nasser Hussain wasn't the best one day batsman ever, but he could hold his place by the strength of his fielding, which could be worth 15/20 runs a match. Sadly Vaughan is a liability in the field.

England have also suffered the loss of Trescothick as opener, his record is amongst the best in the world, and nobody looks good enough to step up to replace hime. We need another Trescothick to open, but in the current domestic scene I don't see that type of explosive opener. Ally Brown, Mal Loye etc have been tried and found wanting.

I would hand a lot of the one day side to some of the younger element under the captaincy of Andrew Strauss, and I would nominate the following 15 as a potential squad for the future. I would omit Flintoff as by the next World Cup he will be nearly 35, but with his litany of injuries may not be around.

Strauss (c), Cook, Pietersen, Bell, Collingwood, Bopara, Rashid (Yorks), Davies or Foster (w), Simon Jones, Broad, Anderson, Onions, Clarke, Panesar & Yardy.

number11 · Apr 19, 2007

Strauss (c), Cook, Pietersen, Bell, Collingwood, Bopara, Rashid (Yorks), Davies or Foster (w), Simon Jones, Broad, Anderson, Onions, Clarke, Panesar & Yardy.[/QUOTE]

I would try my Damdest to keep Clarke and Yardy away from anywhere near the national teams thoughts, but the rest is not too bad, plus others who may come onto the scene in the next few years. Flintoff should still be around next world cup......his bowling will probably be at reduced speed, but his ability to reverse swing, and his (potentially) explosive batting which may he may have time to concentrate on could see him fulfill a Shaun Pollock role...getting through 8-10 overs and slogigng at 7 or 8..