Sir Clive Woodward

[Matt the Shrimp]

...that he is resigning.

Woodward Resigns

Gutted, gutted, gutted.  Why?  To go and manage fcuking Southampton?  They have just become my most despised team in the country for the time being.

Matt

 

[chadded]

I say good luck to him. If he does join Southampton though, it will probably be the bottom rung of possibly a long ladder, with the top rung being succeeeding Sven. If he can do it, then he will undoubtedly become the greatest sports manager of all time. And, as he's English, I think he deserves a lot of support.

FWIW, and I freely admit to knowing little about the whole subject, I think that if he wants to, he could do it. He has proved that he is a top class manager and coach, and some tactics will be interchangable to an extent. Bear in mind that there will be other coaches around him wherever he goes, it's not just Sir Clive on his own.

And in all honesty, if he got the England football managers job tomorrow, I thnik he'd stand a fair chance of doing pretty well anyway.

 

[Napster]

Haven't we got any top-class English managers in football at all?

Outrageous- he's chasing the big bucks- and yes, I know, Houllier/Wenger etc weren't exactly great pros, but at least they've come all the way from the bottom.

If he fails, his life will be a misery, and he won't be able to hide behind the many coaches he will no doubt hire. And, if this is a precedent, will we have managers from other sports coming into football? What does this mean for lower-league managers who want to work their way up? Can they do it again? Lowe (who only came into football recently) is determined to change things, and IMO, he's an idiot.

 

[steveh1510]

Can't blame him, he's done all he possibly can in Rugby Union, and if he gets a chance to prove himself at football also, why not? As Chadded said, there's certainly a future England (football) boss in the making....

 

[Napster]

Another viewpoint from the Guardian

'You must know what you are talking about'

Stuart James
Wednesday September 1, 2004
The Guardian

"Laughable," said the Bath rugby coach John Connolly. "Ridiculous" was the view of the former England football assistant manager John Gorman. The idea that England's most successful rugby coach might take charge of one of the country's leading football clubs is not one that many leading coaches are taking seriously.

"I think it is someone with their ego out of control," said Connolly. "Sometimes coaches get carried away with their own success and that has been proven in many cases. If you are going to manage or coach a side in a sport then you need an in-depth knowledge of the game. You have got to know what you are talking about."

Jose Mourinho's and Arsène Wenger's success supports the theory that the best managers are not necessarily the finest footballers. Both those coaches are highly respected, chiefly because of their managerial achievements and tactical acumen but also for their ability to extract the best from players. Woodward can certainly motivate, but can he transfer the qualities that have produced success on the rugby field to the football pitch? Connolly is not convinced.

"There are certain management and organisational skills in elite sport which are similar but not the same. What is required in rugby and football is physically and mentally different. The games are totally different; for example there is a certain calmness in soccer whereas rugby is played at a high arousal level."

Tom McNab has practical experience of crossing sporting boundaries. The former Great Britain athletics coach has worked with Chelsea and the England rugby team as a fitness expert, but it is his time with the British bobsleigh team during the 1980s which carries the greatest resonance to Woodward's situation.

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"The technical jump is too big to transfer sports," he said. "When I moved across from athletics to bobsleigh I was applying myself to the things I knew already. The driving of the bobsleigh would be the equivalent of the football match, but I didn't look at bobsleigh in terms of the driving, just the push start, and I only looked at the fitness side of rugby. I was only operating in the areas which were reasonably clear."

There is little doubt that Woodward has a passion for football, but professional footballers expect a more technical perspective. However, Frank Clark, deputy chief executive of the League Managers' Association, believes that it would be possible for Woodward to accumulate the knowledge required.

"We are always happy to accept talented people in the industry and he has obviously got some terrific qualities in terms of organisational and motivational skills," said Clark. "But if he wants to be a head coach or a team manager then we would expect him to go through all the qualifications."

Those regulations apply in the Premiership, where a head coach or manager must be in possession of a Uefa Pro licence. But the Football League does not set the same standards, opening the possibility of Woodward taking over at a club in the lower divisions. A more plausible scenario is that he might be given a broader remit which takes advantage of his ability to organise and delegate.

Woodward applied those skills to the England rugby team, where teams of coaches were designated to look after forward and back play, kicking and throwing. Though such methods were seen as revolutionary in rugby, they would not be breaking new ground in football. "It's all been done before," said Gorman. "For example David Crown was working with the strikers at Southend a few years ago, and most clubs have had a coach that works on the defensive play and another coach that works with the forwards for some time."

Another quality synonymous with Woodward is his attention to detail. ProZone, which monitors the movement of players during matches, was heralded as a huge advance when first utilised by the England rugby team, but football already used it. All of which suggests that the man who revolutionised English rugby must bring something different to the table if he is to be embraced by football.

 

[Gremlin]

Quote[/b] (Napster @ Sep. 01 2004,15:01)]What does this mean for lower-league managers who want to work their way up? Can they do it again? Lowe (who only came into football recently) is determined to change things, and IMO, he's an idiot.

Lower league managers looking to work their way to the top need look no further than Martin O'Neill for inspiration.

He's far from being a favourite of mine but stayed at Wycombe for a lot longer than he needed to.

 

[Napster]

O'Neill, Moyes, Cotterill...

 

[BluePartridge]

Quote[/b] (Napster @ Sep. 01 2004,15:22)]O'Neill, Moyes, Cotterill...

Gregory, where is he now anyway?

Oh yeah Sam Allardyce.

 

[Napster]

Quote[/b] (BluePartridge @ Sep. 01 2004,14:35)]

Quote[/b] (Napster @ Sep. 01 2004,15:22)]O'Neill, Moyes, Cotterill...

Gregory, where is he now anyway?

Oh yeah Sam Allardyce.

pundit for Sky Sports. No-one will touch him after his bungs allegations. Mind you, we employed his number 2!

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Quote[/b] (Napster @ Sep. 01 2004,15:18)]"It's all been done before," said Gorman. "For example David Crown was working with the strikers at Southend a few years ago, and most clubs have had a coach that works on the defensive play and another coach that works with the forwards for some time."

(a) Did he honestly say that, or did you just put that in for a laugh?

(b) If so, does that make us ground-breaking?

(.c) How come Gorman spotted that, I wonder?

(d) If we were using our specialist coach (Crowny), how come we haven't had a decent forward at the club for a while?!

Matt

 

[Hong Kong Blue]

Matt - why so despondent?
Woodward did a great job for England, but that team has now split up and its a new generation of players.

The common consensus was that England had peaked at the World Cup, and their play since has been somewhat stale. A new manager should breathe new life into England and help develop a new team to try and retain the World Cup. There will be no danger of that man living on past glories and remaining loyal to players who have done the job for him in the past, but are now past it (not that was what Woodward was doing). This way Woodward goes out on a high, still liked the public, and gives his successor plenty of time to develop his own team.

This story about Woodward managing Southampton is rubbish. Woodward may help out at the Saints, but it'll be a short term consultancy thing if its anything more than a way of raising the profile of his new book. Woodward will want to manage the Lions (no conflicts with his England job any more) next summer.

As for managers who work their way up the leagues, well Paul Sturrock.

 

[Napster]

Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ Sep. 01 2004,14:38)]

Quote[/b] (Napster @ Sep. 01 2004,15:18)]"It's all been done before," said Gorman. "For example David Crown was working with the strikers at Southend a few years ago, and most clubs have had a coach that works on the defensive play and another coach that works with the forwards for some time."

(a) Did he honestly say that, or did you just put that in for a laugh?

(b) If so, does that make us ground-breaking?

(.c) How come Gorman spotted that, I wonder?

(d) If we were using our specialist coach (Crowny), how come we haven't had a decent forward at the club for a while?!

Matt

Sorry, Matt, he actually used Ian Rush as an example (but he was only last season), but the point is still the same.

ps I was hoping someone else would see it first.

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

Quote[/b] (Napster @ Sep. 01 2004,15:51)]

Quote[/b] (Matt the Shrimp @ Sep. 01 2004,14:38)]

Quote[/b] (Napster @ Sep. 01 2004,15:18)]"It's all been done before," said Gorman. "For example David Crown was working with the strikers at Southend a few years ago, and most clubs have had a coach that works on the defensive play and another coach that works with the forwards for some time."

(a) Did he honestly say that, or did you just put that in for a laugh?

(b) If so, does that make us ground-breaking?

(.c) How come Gorman spotted that, I wonder?

(d) If we were using our specialist coach (Crowny), how come we haven't had a decent forward at the club for a while?!

Matt

Sorry, Matt, he actually used Ian Rush as an example (but he was only last season), but the point is still the same.

ps I was hoping someone else would see it first.

Oops, sorry!

 

[overseas shrimper]

I have just read on Eurosport News that Sir Clive has gone back on his decision to step down as England's rugby coach.

 

[footymad13]

Seems rather wierd and got to feel sorry for the saints fans, still shocked at the way Paul Sturrock went now they are being told a bloody Rugby coach could be involved big time in the running of there club.

Although to be fair it does make sense if he were to help in terms of the fitness, academy depts and setup of the club but if he were given any control over the team and tatics then id be very worried and feel sorry for the Southampton coaches.

 

[Napster]

Actually, Saints most successful manager never played football at all.

Oh, and Bertie Mee, the Arsenal manager was only the physio

 

[overseas shrimper]

Quote[/b] (Napster @ Sep. 02 2004,19:06)]Actually, Saints most successful manager never played football at all.

Oh, and Bertie Mee, the Arsenal manager was only the physio

And Barry Fry was just a fat Judas ****!

 

[footymad13]

Quote[/b] (Napster @ Sep. 02 2004,18:06)]Actually, Saints most successful manager never played football at all.

Oh, and Bertie Mee, the Arsenal manager was only the physio

Indeed Laurie Mcmanimey (excuse the spelling) i believe the saints trust were making this point. Still will be interesting to see if Woodwood does well in football.

 

[footymad13]

Quote[/b] (Napster @ Sep. 02 2004,18:06)]Actually, Saints most successful manager never played football at all.

Oh, and Bertie Mee, the Arsenal manager was only the physio

Indeed Laurie Mcmanimey (excuse the spelling) i believe the saints trust were making this point. Still will be interesting to see if Woodwood does well in football.