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MK Shrimper
Striker
Sorry Matt, Bach should not even be in song writing contest. IMHO you cannot classify classical music as "songs". Besides he never wrote anything half as good as Sympathy For The Devil...
Another Surrey Shrimper
Life President
You don't like anything Skid Row released? Johann, who the **** is Johann?
Crabby Shrimper
President
Why not? What would you call a song? Music with words? Surely that's the same as a Cantata? I believe a couple of hundred of them survive, though many have also been lost through time.
Longevity? They're still in use around 300 years after they were written.
MK Shrimper
Striker
Jesus H Christ no. I put that brief big hair metal period far, far behind me. Thank god for Nirvana to show me the way.
Fair enough, I'm not aware of these cantatas...but can they be hummed as you sit on the khazi? Just for the record, I'm certainly not anti-classical in any way.
Another Surrey Shrimper
Life President
That sounds very much to me like pre-Nirvana you hearted Skid Row, go and stand in the corner, you have let yourself down and you've let your team mates down.
Rusty Shackleford
Banned
Gimme Shelter. That is all.
Napster
No ⭐
Voodoo Lounge is great, as is Stripped.
Matt the Shrimp
aka Harry Potter
¿Que? Look, I know that Bach isn't terribly fashionable, but ask yourselves this: of all the other people in this competition, how many of them will have their music performed weekly, 260 years after their death?
Honestly? Lennon & McCartney might. Don't think many of the others will - probably not even Jagger & Richards.
Er, why not? As it happens, song-writing was only a mere fraction of Bach's output. Take, for instance, the Bach motets, such as Komm Jesu Komm:
[video=youtube;UT6hv9JFG2Y]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UT6hv9JFG2Y[/video]
or, perhaps more famously, something from one of his Passions, e.g. this wonderful Aria from the St. John Passion:
[video=youtube;rvu01uUIU4c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvu01uUIU4c[/video]
Of course, the wonderful thing about some of Bach's output is that it is so readily open to interpretation. Let's take something that everyone knows - Jesu, Joy of Man's Desiring. You can go for the trad version:
[video=youtube;RLsQ-_jnxeQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLsQ-_jnxeQ[/video]
Or, give it a weird, Celtic twinge:
[video=youtube;iPeVIuRjUi4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPeVIuRjUi4[/video]
or, something really pared down - piano, only (probably my favourite)
[video=youtube;uKq5IcBFyeQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKq5IcBFyeQ[/video]
* * *
Bach's catalogued musical output stretches to 1126 different works within the BWV series - some of which, such as his Passions (St. John Passion, St. Matthew Passion), are as large as enormous, 80+ minute operas; others of which are small works for the lute.
Yes, his work does rather have a religious feel to it - but then he was employed by the Church, so he rather had to direct his output in that direction. But the fact is, 250 years ago, he created music which was (for its time) totally and utterly groundbreaking, which defied convention (e.g. he effectively created the modern concept of the Concerto in Brandenburg No. 5 - never before had one instrument within the concerto grosso been allowed such a massive solo), which defied the Papacy (the Agnus Dei from the Mass in B Minor is full of the "Diabolo in Musica" - the tritone, banned by Rome), and which still can thrill today, 260 years or more after his death. I'll put those three links below.
Look, don't get me wrong, the Stones are one of the two great bands of the latter half of the 20th Century. But:
* the Stones's genius is in their performance, more than anything else
* their song-writing has often been criticised for being very heavily influenced by Delta / 12-bar blues, and thus not truly original
* will the Stones' music sound as fresh in 260 years time?
* * *
Brandenburg 5 (bit of a run in from 5:08, the Harpsichord gets going at 5:45)
[video=youtube_share;49IOKnhX0Sk]http://youtu.be/49IOKnhX0Sk?t=5m8s[/video]
Mass in B Minor, Agnus Dei
[video=youtube;MXm9aoRtr5M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXm9aoRtr5M[/video]
And, save the belter for last... Toccata & Fugue in D minor:
[video=youtube;_FXoyr_FyFw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FXoyr_FyFw[/video]
* * *
Vote JS Bach - the greatest writer of music (including songs) of all time, IMHO.
Crabby Shrimper
President
Point of order, if you're humming them then you're nit using the words, ergo you're judging the music writer, not the song writer! :)
canveyshrimper
R.I.P
Brilliant piece of advocacy Matt, and I may use your Lennon/McCartney reference when my turn comes around.
Clinton Baptiste
Life President⭐
Matt puts a great argument across. As a pianist myself I appreciate the works of all the classical greats (though I struggle to play most of their works) but I am going for Jagger/Richards purely because if theres one song that gets me in a good mood its 'Jumpin Jack Flash'.
GrumpyBlue
Director⭐⭐🦐
Got to be Bach - the Stones have written some good stuff but far too much old tosh
McNasty
Member
Jagger and Richards, two members of the greatest rock and roll band in the world need no introduction. They have been part of my life since the age of 9 in 1963 when I first heard their music and have been a fan ever since. Mr Bach, whilst a serious musical talent, can hardly be called a song-writer and I appeal to all R & B music lovers to support this duo to even bigger and better things.
The songwriting partnership of Mick Jagger and Keith Richards, known as Jagger/Richards (and occasionally Richards/Jagger), is a musical collaboration whose output is the majority of the catalogue of their group, The Rolling Stones.
In addition to Jagger and Richards's songwriting partnership, they have also produced or co-produced numerous Rolling Stones albums under the pseudonym The Glimmer Twins.
Jagger and Richards have different recollections about their first songwriting endeavours, but both credit manager Andrew Loog Oldham as the catalyst for their collaboration. Richards agrees that it was Oldham who pressed the pair to write songs, noting that there weren't that many obscure great songs out there for the band to cover. According to him:
“So what Andrew Oldham did was lock us up in the kitchen for a night and say, 'Don't come out without a song.' We sat around and came up with 'As Tears Go By'. It was unlike most Rolling Stones material, but that's what happens when you write songs, you immediately fly to some other realm. The weird thing is that Andrew found Marianne Faithfull at the same time, bunged it to her and it was a ****in' hit for her - we were songwriters already! But it took the rest of that year to dare to write anything for the Stones. ”
Jagger's version is:
“Keith likes to tell the story about the kitchen, God bless him. I think Andrew may have said something at some point along the lines of 'I should lock you in a room until you've written a song' and in that way he did mentally lock us in a room, but he didn't literally lock us in. One of the first songs we came out with was that tune for George Bean, the very memorable 'It Should Be You'. ”
The first original Jagger/Richards song to be released as the a-side of a Rolling Stones single was "Tell Me (You're Coming Back)", from their debut album. Released as a single in the US only, peaked at number 24 on the charts there. The earlier "Good Times, Bad Times" had been released as the b-side to their cover of Bobby and Shirley Womack's "It's All Over Now". The band's first UK single featuring an a-side Jagger/Richards original was "The Last Time"; released in February 1965, it went to number 1 in the UK and number 9 in the US.
Although most Jagger/Richards compositions have been collaborations, some of the songs credited to the famous partnership have been most frequently solo songwriting from either Jagger, whose examples include "Sympathy for the Devil" and "Brown Sugar", or Richards, whose examples include "Happy" and "Little T&A". This is comparable to the Lennon/McCartney partnership, who also adhered to a tradition of joint credits even on numbers that were written by just one of the pair. As Mick Jagger stated in his comprehensive 1995 interview with Jann Wenner of Rolling Stone magazine, "I think in the end it all balances out."
One of the patterns that the Jagger/Richards collaboration initially followed has been that Jagger wrote most of the lyrics while Richards focused on the music. Jagger discussed this in the same 1995 interview with Wenner, whereby he explained how songs like "Get Off of My Cloud", "As Tears Go By", "Wild Horses", "Tumbling Dice" and "Beast of Burden" were created. He has also pointed out that this pattern was more prevalent in the early 1960s, while in their later collaborations their roles have overlapped more, with both songwriters contributing both lyrics and music.
Jagger/Richards compositions released only by other artists
Some Jagger/Richards compositions have been released only by artists other than The Rolling Stones include:
"That Girl Belongs to Yesterday", a January 1964 single by Gene Pitney
"Will You Be My Lover Tonight"/"It Should Be You", a January 1964 single by George Bean
"Shang a Doo Lang", a March 1964 single by Adrienne Posta
"So Much in Love", an August 1964 single by The Mighty Avengers, also recorded by The Lonely Boys and released in their self-titled 1996 album.
"Act Together", on Ronnie Wood's September 1974 LP I've Got My Own Album to Do and the associated July 1974 The First Barbarians: Live from Kilburn concert (released in October 2007)
"Sure the One You Need", on Wood's I've Got My Own Album to Do and The First Barbarians: Live from Kilburn; and on The New Barbarians' May 1979 concert album Buried Alive: Live in Maryland (released in October 2006).
List of Rolling Stones singles credited to Jagger/Richards
These are the Jagger/Richards songs that have been released as Rolling Stones singles (both A-side and B-sides), and promos, as credited to Jagger/Richards:
"2000 Light Years from Home"
"19th Nervous Breakdown"
"All Down the Line"
"All the Way Down"
"Angie"
"Any Way You Look at It"
"Beast of Burden"
"Before They Make Me Run" (live)
"Biggest Mistake"
"Bitch"
"Break the Spell"
"Brown Sugar"
"Child of the Moon"
"Congratulations"
"Cook Cook Blues"
"Crazy Mama"
"Dance Little Sister"
"Dancing with Mr. D"
"Dandelion "
"Don't Stop"
"Doo Doo Doo Doo Doo (Heartbreaker)"
"Down in the Hole"
"Emotional Rescue"
"Fancy Man Blues"
"Far Away Eyes"
"Flip the Switch"
"Fool to Cry"
"Get Off of My Cloud"
"Good Times, Bad Times"
"Gotta Get Away"
"Hang Fire"
"Happy"
"Have You Seen Your Mother, Baby, Standing in the Shadow?"
"Heart of Stone"
"Highwire"
"Honky Tonk Women"
"Hot Stuff"
"Hurricane"
"(I Can't Get No) Satisfaction"
"I Go Wild"
"I Think I'm Going Mad"
"I'm Free"
"I'm Gonna Drive"
"It's Only Rock 'n Roll (But I Like It)"
"Jiving Sister Fanny"
"Jump on Top of Me"
"Jumpin' Jack Flash"
"Lady Jane"
"The Lantern"
"The Last Time"
"Let's Spend the Night Together"
"Little T&A"
"Live with Me"
"Long Long While"
"Love Is Strong"
"Loving Cup"
"Miss You"
"Mixed Emotions"
"Mother's Little Helper"
"Monkey Man"
"Neighbours"
"No Expectations"
"Off the Hook"
"Oh No, Not You Again"
"Out of Control"
"Out of Tears"
"Out of Time"
"Paint It, Black"
"Plundered My Soul"
"Rain Fall Down"
"Respectable"
"Rock and a Hard Place"
"Rough Justice"
"Ruby Tuesday"
"Sad Day"
"Sad Sad Sad"
"Saint of Me"
"Send It to Me"
"Sex Drive"
"Shattered"
"She's a Rainbow"
"She's So Cold"
"She Was Hot"
"Silver Train"
"The Singer not the Song"
"So Young"
"Sparks Will Fly"
"The Spider and the Fly"
"Start Me Up"
"The Storm"
"Street Fighting Man"
"Streets of Love"
"Stupid Girl"
"Surprise, Surprise"
"Sway"
"Sweet Black Angel"
"Sympathy for the Devil"
"Tell Me"
"Terrifying"
"Think I'm Going Mad"
"Through the Lonely Nights"
"Too Much Blood"
"Too Tough"
"Try a Little Harder"
"Tumbling Dice"
"Undercover of the Night"
"Waiting on a Friend"
"We Love You"
"What a Shame"
"When the Whip Comes Down"
"Who's Driving Your Plane?"
"Wild Horses"
"Winning Ugly"
"Wish I'd Never Met You"
"You Can't Always Get What You Want"
"You Got Me Rocking"
Production as the Glimmer Twins and origin of the name
Jagger and Richards adopted the nickname "The Glimmer Twins" after a vacation cruise they took to Brazil in December 1968/January 1969 with their then-girlfriends, Marianne Faithfull and Anita Pallenberg. An older English couple on the ship kept asking Richards and Jagger who they were. When they refused to reveal their identities, the woman reportedly kept asking, "just give us a glimmer" (as in "give us a hint about who you are"), which amused Jagger and Richards.
Jagger and Richards began to produce the Stones' albums under the pseudonym "The Glimmer Twins" starting with It's Only Rock 'n' Roll (released in 1974). The Glimmer Twins were the sole credited producers for the band's studio and live albums from that point through "Still Life" (American Concert 1981) (released in 1982). Starting with Undercover (released in 1983), the Glimmer Twins have shared production credit for the Rolling Stones albums with other producers, most frequently Don Was (five times) and Chris Kimsey (three times).
Besides their production work for the Rolling Stones, Jagger and Richards also used the Glimmer Twins for their co-production credit on Peter Tosh's album Bush Doctor, released in 1978. A rare exception to Jagger and Richards's use of the Glimmer Twins name for production credits appeared on John Phillips's Pay, Pack and Follow album, recorded 1973-1979 and released in 2001, for which Jagger and Richards were credited as producers under their own names.
The songwriting partnership of Mick Jagger and Keith Richards, known as Jagger/Richards (and occasionally Richards/Jagger), is a musical collaboration whose output is the majority of the catalogue of their group, The Rolling Stones.
In addition to Jagger and Richards's songwriting partnership, they have also produced or co-produced numerous Rolling Stones albums under the pseudonym The Glimmer Twins.
Jagger and Richards have different recollections about their first songwriting endeavours, but both credit manager Andrew Loog Oldham as the catalyst for their collaboration. Richards agrees that it was Oldham who pressed the pair to write songs, noting that there weren't that many obscure great songs out there for the band to cover. According to him:
“So what Andrew Oldham did was lock us up in the kitchen for a night and say, 'Don't come out without a song.' We sat around and came up with 'As Tears Go By'. It was unlike most Rolling Stones material, but that's what happens when you write songs, you immediately fly to some other realm. The weird thing is that Andrew found Marianne Faithfull at the same time, bunged it to her and it was a ****in' hit for her - we were songwriters already! But it took the rest of that year to dare to write anything for the Stones. ”
Jagger's version is:
“Keith likes to tell the story about the kitchen, God bless him. I think Andrew may have said something at some point along the lines of 'I should lock you in a room until you've written a song' and in that way he did mentally lock us in a room, but he didn't literally lock us in. One of the first songs we came out with was that tune for George Bean, the very memorable 'It Should Be You'. ”
The first original Jagger/Richards song to be released as the a-side of a Rolling Stones single was "Tell Me (You're Coming Back)", from their debut album. Released as a single in the US only, peaked at number 24 on the charts there. The earlier "Good Times, Bad Times" had been released as the b-side to their cover of Bobby and Shirley Womack's "It's All Over Now". The band's first UK single featuring an a-side Jagger/Richards original was "The Last Time"; released in February 1965, it went to number 1 in the UK and number 9 in the US.
Although most Jagger/Richards compositions have been collaborations, some of the songs credited to the famous partnership have been most frequently solo songwriting from either Jagger, whose examples include "Sympathy for the Devil" and "Brown Sugar", or Richards, whose examples include "Happy" and "Little T&A". This is comparable to the Lennon/McCartney partnership, who also adhered to a tradition of joint credits even on numbers that were written by just one of the pair. As Mick Jagger stated in his comprehensive 1995 interview with Jann Wenner of Rolling Stone magazine, "I think in the end it all balances out."
One of the patterns that the Jagger/Richards collaboration initially followed has been that Jagger wrote most of the lyrics while Richards focused on the music. Jagger discussed this in the same 1995 interview with Wenner, whereby he explained how songs like "Get Off of My Cloud", "As Tears Go By", "Wild Horses", "Tumbling Dice" and "Beast of Burden" were created. He has also pointed out that this pattern was more prevalent in the early 1960s, while in their later collaborations their roles have overlapped more, with both songwriters contributing both lyrics and music.
Jagger/Richards compositions released only by other artists
Some Jagger/Richards compositions have been released only by artists other than The Rolling Stones include:
"That Girl Belongs to Yesterday", a January 1964 single by Gene Pitney
"Will You Be My Lover Tonight"/"It Should Be You", a January 1964 single by George Bean
"Shang a Doo Lang", a March 1964 single by Adrienne Posta
"So Much in Love", an August 1964 single by The Mighty Avengers, also recorded by The Lonely Boys and released in their self-titled 1996 album.
"Act Together", on Ronnie Wood's September 1974 LP I've Got My Own Album to Do and the associated July 1974 The First Barbarians: Live from Kilburn concert (released in October 2007)
"Sure the One You Need", on Wood's I've Got My Own Album to Do and The First Barbarians: Live from Kilburn; and on The New Barbarians' May 1979 concert album Buried Alive: Live in Maryland (released in October 2006).
List of Rolling Stones singles credited to Jagger/Richards
These are the Jagger/Richards songs that have been released as Rolling Stones singles (both A-side and B-sides), and promos, as credited to Jagger/Richards:
"2000 Light Years from Home"
"19th Nervous Breakdown"
"All Down the Line"
"All the Way Down"
"Angie"
"Any Way You Look at It"
"Beast of Burden"
"Before They Make Me Run" (live)
"Biggest Mistake"
"Bitch"
"Break the Spell"
"Brown Sugar"
"Child of the Moon"
"Congratulations"
"Cook Cook Blues"
"Crazy Mama"
"Dance Little Sister"
"Dancing with Mr. D"
"Dandelion "
"Don't Stop"
"Doo Doo Doo Doo Doo (Heartbreaker)"
"Down in the Hole"
"Emotional Rescue"
"Fancy Man Blues"
"Far Away Eyes"
"Flip the Switch"
"Fool to Cry"
"Get Off of My Cloud"
"Good Times, Bad Times"
"Gotta Get Away"
"Hang Fire"
"Happy"
"Have You Seen Your Mother, Baby, Standing in the Shadow?"
"Heart of Stone"
"Highwire"
"Honky Tonk Women"
"Hot Stuff"
"Hurricane"
"(I Can't Get No) Satisfaction"
"I Go Wild"
"I Think I'm Going Mad"
"I'm Free"
"I'm Gonna Drive"
"It's Only Rock 'n Roll (But I Like It)"
"Jiving Sister Fanny"
"Jump on Top of Me"
"Jumpin' Jack Flash"
"Lady Jane"
"The Lantern"
"The Last Time"
"Let's Spend the Night Together"
"Little T&A"
"Live with Me"
"Long Long While"
"Love Is Strong"
"Loving Cup"
"Miss You"
"Mixed Emotions"
"Mother's Little Helper"
"Monkey Man"
"Neighbours"
"No Expectations"
"Off the Hook"
"Oh No, Not You Again"
"Out of Control"
"Out of Tears"
"Out of Time"
"Paint It, Black"
"Plundered My Soul"
"Rain Fall Down"
"Respectable"
"Rock and a Hard Place"
"Rough Justice"
"Ruby Tuesday"
"Sad Day"
"Sad Sad Sad"
"Saint of Me"
"Send It to Me"
"Sex Drive"
"Shattered"
"She's a Rainbow"
"She's So Cold"
"She Was Hot"
"Silver Train"
"The Singer not the Song"
"So Young"
"Sparks Will Fly"
"The Spider and the Fly"
"Start Me Up"
"The Storm"
"Street Fighting Man"
"Streets of Love"
"Stupid Girl"
"Surprise, Surprise"
"Sway"
"Sweet Black Angel"
"Sympathy for the Devil"
"Tell Me"
"Terrifying"
"Think I'm Going Mad"
"Through the Lonely Nights"
"Too Much Blood"
"Too Tough"
"Try a Little Harder"
"Tumbling Dice"
"Undercover of the Night"
"Waiting on a Friend"
"We Love You"
"What a Shame"
"When the Whip Comes Down"
"Who's Driving Your Plane?"
"Wild Horses"
"Winning Ugly"
"Wish I'd Never Met You"
"You Can't Always Get What You Want"
"You Got Me Rocking"
Production as the Glimmer Twins and origin of the name
Jagger and Richards adopted the nickname "The Glimmer Twins" after a vacation cruise they took to Brazil in December 1968/January 1969 with their then-girlfriends, Marianne Faithfull and Anita Pallenberg. An older English couple on the ship kept asking Richards and Jagger who they were. When they refused to reveal their identities, the woman reportedly kept asking, "just give us a glimmer" (as in "give us a hint about who you are"), which amused Jagger and Richards.
Jagger and Richards began to produce the Stones' albums under the pseudonym "The Glimmer Twins" starting with It's Only Rock 'n' Roll (released in 1974). The Glimmer Twins were the sole credited producers for the band's studio and live albums from that point through "Still Life" (American Concert 1981) (released in 1982). Starting with Undercover (released in 1983), the Glimmer Twins have shared production credit for the Rolling Stones albums with other producers, most frequently Don Was (five times) and Chris Kimsey (three times).
Besides their production work for the Rolling Stones, Jagger and Richards also used the Glimmer Twins for their co-production credit on Peter Tosh's album Bush Doctor, released in 1978. A rare exception to Jagger and Richards's use of the Glimmer Twins name for production credits appeared on John Phillips's Pay, Pack and Follow album, recorded 1973-1979 and released in 2001, for which Jagger and Richards were credited as producers under their own names.
OldBlueLady
Junior Blues Coordinator⭐⭐🦐
Lol, owner vs owner, not often that happens!!!
McNasty
Member
It happens all the time. It's just you don't see our fights and squabbles. :punch:
Matt the Shrimp
aka Harry Potter
Exactly - cabinet collective responsibility, innit.
Ole Johann's doing better than I thought he might, although expectations were pretty low...
*sigh*
Ole Johann's doing better than I thought he might, although expectations were pretty low...
*sigh*
Matt the Shrimp
aka Harry Potter
OK, some big guns now...
Goldberg Variations - Aria
[video=youtube;OwEsrdClimk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwEsrdClimk[/video]
Air on a G string (fnarr)
[video=youtube;e2OoJamNLMQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2OoJamNLMQ[/video]
Bach - Cello Suite No. 1 - prelude
[video=youtube;S6yuR8efotI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6yuR8efotI[/video]
Ich folge - from St. John Passion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0RZ6NQifQg&t=4m39s
Goldberg Variations - Aria
[video=youtube;OwEsrdClimk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwEsrdClimk[/video]
Air on a G string (fnarr)
[video=youtube;e2OoJamNLMQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2OoJamNLMQ[/video]
Bach - Cello Suite No. 1 - prelude
[video=youtube;S6yuR8efotI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6yuR8efotI[/video]
Ich folge - from St. John Passion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0RZ6NQifQg&t=4m39s
Last edited:
Supernaut
And I used to be a citizen⭐
Absolutely, stunning - suck on that Mick n' Keef, you pair of drug addled old has-been *****.
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