Players on Loan.

[rigsby]

Well done CP for getting in the 3 on loan. A big lad up front and someone stronger in mid-field would have been on anyone's shopping list but getting someone who can slot in with at least L1 experience is the difficult bit in January. Lets hope Sam Mantom arrives soon but I guess he wouldn't be coming to us if he hadn't had problems. Shayon Harrison is a work in progress so lets not expect to much to soon.

January might be good for Sheffield United but for us we are much better spending money, if we have any, in the summer.
There has ben a club policy for the last year not to have loans in, which the vast majority of fans supported. I don't think anyone can argue that signing these lads until the end of the season is the answer because we needed first 11 starters not squad fillers that have failed at another club.

The problem is there are two types of loan, the young cheaper option of the PL untested academy player. Or the more expensive Freddie or Sam option. I agree we might as well play our lads rather other peoples because we need to show there is a pathway to the first team. If Ricky Duncan is chatting to the parents of the next 10 year old potential Bentley or Payne, then actions always speak louder than words.

We could have signed loan players in the summer but having a ridged no policy does restrict the mangers options. Plus as a wild guess if I was some slimy football agent I would know a lack of competition suits me. We knew that Ranger was otherwise engaged and having decided to back the cheeky scamp there was no point in buying another target man. That was the time to sign someone from the experienced loan list.

Just to add to our problems before we had kicked a league ball, Turner was injured, Coker broke his leg and before the end of August we had a serious problem with Kiernan. That's why you have to be dynamic in football....Change of plan lets sign a decent CB.

Apart from the pitch, which no one on the playing side of things could have predicted then having a remit of promotion and playing our lads was at best wishful thinking. If Ron came out and said lets be honest without FF the Championship would be a waste of time and as proved last time could do long term damage. So what we are going to do is play our own youth, give them some support but don't expect the world. I would be cool with that but unfortunately most fans at any club have to be sold the success this season dream.

 

[Shrimper2thecore]

Couple of things here:

1) I don't understand the negativity surrounding loans. They're crucial to supplement a squad with limited resources (assuming we aren't paying all of their wages). We have had some fantastic players over the years that we have benefited from that we wouldn't have otherwise. Britt Assombalonga for example.

2) Lapado isn't a loan deal, it is a perm transfer.

 

[LBBlue]

2) Lapado isn't a loan deal, it is a perm transfer.

Thats what I thought - contract to the end of the season and one year option if he does well.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Loans (other than with a view to a permanent move) aren't ideal but they were forced upon us given the limited amount of time CP had due to the delay in sacking PB.

 

[Rattus Norvegicus]

Couple of things here:

1) I don't understand the negativity surrounding loans. They're crucial to supplement a squad with limited resources (assuming we aren't paying all of their wages). We have had some fantastic players over the years that we have benefited from that we wouldn't have otherwise. Britt Assombalonga for example.

2) Lapado isn't a loan deal, it is a perm transfer.

I am one of those that is pre-set to be "negative" about the loan system - perhaps it is my age! Or if I was being a bit more specific, I am "negative" about the size and scale of the loan system. Coming up against a team that has 1 loan player (for example) is very different to the days when it seemed the opponents whole strategy was based around loan players.

I am pleased to say that this view has been heard and I hope the days of constant new loans will never come back. Players that want to play 1st team football now have to make hard choices between sitting (some would say "rotting") in the reserves or moving onto another club. And that means more talent filtering down the leagues to the benefit of all fans who want to see the best talent on the pitch on Saturday and not sat in the stands in their club uniform.

And even with the current curtailed loan system I "grade" loans in different ways - a player coming down from the top league for 6 months is (for me) without any prospect of the player staying "just isn't cricket" whilst a player joining another team with a view to a permanent move I see in a more pragmatic manner.

My "best fit" position is for a manager (and club) to set out their stall in August and then that is the team for the fans to get behind through the good and the bad times for the whole season ......... madness eh?

 

[Mick]

And even with the current curtailed loan system I "grade" loans in different ways - a player coming down from the top league for 6 months is (for me) without any prospect of the player staying "just isn't cricket" whilst a player joining another team with a view to a permanent move I see in a more pragmatic manner.

So you would be against us sending any promising youngsters out to non-league clubs on loan to gain experience? Similar principle.

 

[Rattus Norvegicus]

So you would be against us sending any promising youngsters out to non-league clubs on loan to gain experience? Similar principle.

Interesting point. Similar principle - yes. I am going to be honest and say you have a fair point and a tricky one to think about.

I can see that sending out younger players on loan is a way of judging if they have the potential to have a career as a professional at the lower end of the league ladder. That is a positive for many.

But again, I gravitate towards asking questions about the scale of this. 1 or 2 per club is one end of the gauge (how many players have we out on loan at the moment for example?) Other clubs seem to almost use a "mass farming" approach where they use the lower leagues as laboratory testing that allows these clubs to persist in an approach that sees youngsters vacuumed up from a large geographical area and just as quickly tossed aside. Sorry but that doesn't seem right to me.

 

[Rattus Norvegicus]

Anyone watch Football on 5 and goals in our division?

Nearly every match had mention of loan players scoring or being involved in goals - not sure why but for me that slightly devalues the 2nd half of the season. It doesn't seem very sporting to me but then I am an old g*t.

 

[bazzashrimper]

I’m not sure why so many people are anti loans. We’ve just had a few years of signing tat loanees, rather than assombalogas of years gone by. Often it gives you an advantage if a player is released further down the line to bring them in again. Put that up against signing a 36 year old in their last year or two and all things being equal, I’d have a loanee.

 

[Rattus Norvegicus]

I’m not sure why so many people are anti loans. We’ve just had a few years of signing tat loanees, rather than assombalogas of years gone by. Often it gives you an advantage if a player is released further down the line to bring them in again. Put that up against signing a 36 year old in their last year or two and all things being equal, I’d have a loanee.

There are other options .......... and I could mention a few loan players that I think we could agree were a waste of space and time ...... and money etcetera.

It's about there being a balance .......... I think we (Southend United) have got that right in the last couple of seasons.

 

[Fairport]

Using the loan market well is arguably part of the skill set of the modern day manager/coach or Chief executive. All part of trying to be a successful club. Just the same as being a good motivator or tactician.

 

[turkishm]

Well done CP for getting in the 3 on loan. A big lad up front and someone stronger in mid-field would have been on anyone's shopping list but getting someone who can slot in with at least L1 experience is the difficult bit in January. Lets hope Sam Mantom arrives soon but I guess he wouldn't be coming to us if he hadn't had problems. Shayon Harrison is a work in progress so lets not expect to much to soon.

January might be good for Sheffield United but for us we are much better spending money, if we have any, in the summer.
There has ben a club policy for the last year not to have loans in, which the vast majority of fans supported. I don't think anyone can argue that signing these lads until the end of the season is the answer because we needed first 11 starters not squad fillers that have failed at another club.

The problem is there are two types of loan, the young cheaper option of the PL untested academy player. Or the more expensive Freddie or Sam option. I agree we might as well play our lads rather other peoples because we need to show there is a pathway to the first team. If Ricky Duncan is chatting to the parents of the next 10 year old potential Bentley or Payne, then actions always speak louder than words.

We could have signed loan players in the summer but having a ridged no policy does restrict the mangers options. Plus as a wild guess if I was some slimy football agent I would know a lack of competition suits me. We knew that Ranger was otherwise engaged and having decided to back the cheeky scamp there was no point in buying another target man. That was the time to sign someone from the experienced loan list.

Just to add to our problems before we had kicked a league ball, Turner was injured, Coker broke his leg and before the end of August we had a serious problem with Kiernan. That's why you have to be dynamic in football....Change of plan lets sign a decent CB.

Apart from the pitch, which no one on the playing side of things could have predicted then having a remit of promotion and playing our lads was at best wishful thinking. If Ron came out and said lets be honest without FF the Championship would be a waste of time and as proved last time could do long term damage. So what we are going to do is play our own youth, give them some support but don't expect the world. I would be cool with that but unfortunately most fans at any club have to be sold the success this season dream.

Well said young R. A first class post, as you do more than often.

 

[buffalowolf]

Interesting point. Similar principle - yes. I am going to be honest and say you have a fair point and a tricky one to think about.

I can see that sending out younger players on loan is a way of judging if they have the potential to have a career as a professional at the lower end of the league ladder. That is a positive for many.

But again, I gravitate towards asking questions about the scale of this. 1 or 2 per club is one end of the gauge (how many players have we out on loan at the moment for example?) Other clubs seem to almost use a "mass farming" approach where they use the lower leagues as laboratory testing that allows these clubs to persist in an approach that sees youngsters vacuumed up from a large geographical area and just as quickly tossed aside. Sorry but that doesn't seem right to me.

mmmmmmmmmmmm Chelsea springs to mind there

 

[Barry.C]

Jack Marriot, comfortably the leagues leading goalscorer, was loaned out 6 times , in the not too distant past. He said it was what really made him, but acknowledged its as much a test of character, as helping to hone technical skills, experience and maturity
The loan system is clearly vital and its advantages outweigh the downside. I still dont think we use it anywhere near enough to bring on some of our youngsters. I do appreciate they are not necessarily easy calls, as you want to develop the academy and a move towards under 23 games helps a bit and is a step up from under 21s. But these games dont come around often enough and neither are they are match for regularly weekly league football. I think we have just one player or maybe two out on loan at present. I think it should be more, especially as we have just brought 3 more players into the club and other youngsters are making the grade or in the squad. What about the rest? I would like to see some lads given the opportunity to experience league 2 or the National league more often. That is allowed outside the transfer window as I understand it.,
There is not much of an argument that this is not beneficial for them. The chance to hone skills away from your "home " environment, and mature mentally and physically . Some of the Country's best and most talented, put it down to being loaned out. The decision where to go has to be carefully looked at by all parties as you want decent coaching to continue.
Ultimately though a fairer system in redistributing some of the obscene wealth generated for the Premiership would help address some of the downside.

 

[united we stand]

At a Q&A a couple of yeasts ago SK said that Ron was against the loan system and codes against it. His point was that in choosing a club, the one HUGE advantage lower league teams would have is that the chances of a youngster actually playing league football would be far far greater with the likes of ourselves. If we did get the next big thing then a big club will come in and the youngster will still get to play for the big club.

 

[RobM]

I recall a few years back we beat Plymouth 3-0 and our three loan players all scored one.

 

[Barry.C]

At a Q&A a couple of yeasts ago SK said that Ron was against the loan system and codes against it. His point was that in choosing a club, the one HUGE advantage lower league teams would have is that the chances of a youngster actually playing league football would be far far greater with the likes of ourselves. If we did get the next big thing then a big club will come in and the youngster will still get to play for the big club.

Interesting point UWS and certainly we were set against it at the beginning of the season when we were told we would have a smaller quality squad and no loanees ( which seemed and proved to be high risk if you bring in older players ). The reason given though was that it was too disruptive and Phil didnt enjoy handling it.
Nevertheless Ron has now changed his mind it seems and Im pleased that he has, even if it was because we were facing relegation and the squad needed strengthening. Also for a man set against it, he did nevertheless bring in around 20 loanees over the past 3-4 seasons. The best brief spell being Asosmbalonga, Bedford, Ben Reeves and maybe Lavery, After that we had Cassidy, O Neill, Coulthirst, Binnon Williams, Sokolik, Rea, Kamara, Mc Queen, Malarczyk, Innis, King, Amos, Loza. Pigott. A varied bunch but hardly glowing successes in the main.?
This said more about our recruitment I believe than the benefits of the system, given the huge number of successes brought in elsewhere, continuing to this day

 

[rigsby]

Interesting point UWS and certainly we were set against it at the beginning of the season when we were told we would have a smaller quality squad and no loanees ( which seemed and proved to be high risk if you bring in older players ). The reason given though was that it was too disruptive and Phil didnt enjoy handling it.
Nevertheless Ron has now changed his mind it seems and Im pleased that he has, even if it was because we were facing relegation and the squad needed strengthening. Also for a man set against it, he did nevertheless bring in around 20 loanees over the past 3-4 seasons. The best brief spell being Asosmbalonga, Bedford, Ben Reeves and maybe Lavery, After that we had Cassidy, O Neill, Coulthirst, Binnon Williams, Sokolik, Rea, Kamara, Mc Queen, Malarczyk, Innis, King, Amos, Loza. Pigott. A varied bunch but hardly glowing successes in the main.?
This said more about our recruitment I believe than the benefits of the system, given the huge number of successes brought in elsewhere, continuing to this day

You have just made that up haven't you Barry.

If that was the case why would we have had a number of potential loanees lined up in the summer.

 

[Barry.C]

Interesting looking at the top 9 scorers in our league in he sense that 3 of them are actually well travelled journeymen from the lower reaches. Marriot, Eaves and Wyke. Between them they have knocked in a staggering 49 goals this year and yet their career paths were not great for some time and the 3 of them were loaned out 16 times . Eaves was sent off on 6 occassions between 20122 and 2016

 

[RHB]

Interesting looking at the top 9 scorers in our league in he sense that 3 of them are actually well travelled journeymen from the lower reaches. Marriot, Eaves and Wyke. Between them they have knocked in a staggering 49 goals this year and yet their career paths were not great for some time and the 3 of them were loaned out 16 times . Eaves was sent off on 6 occassions between 20122 and 2016

An adept time traveller obviously.:winking: