Mercenaries ?

[Tin Bath]

I am not going to start a thread and moan about our chairmen or manager for lack of signings, I mean 3 months ago this board was full of praise saying we had the best chairman in the league who really did care about the club and the fans.

Now I want to spin the other arguement and ask are modern day footballers getting too big for their boots and are Agents just gready low life bottom feeders ? I know for a fact when I see Barry Silkman on TV i want to land a punch in his fat face.

No one really knows what our players earn but the common myth is the better players are on £2k a week maybe £3k ? I for one respect privacy so I dont want to know to the exact penny what each player is earning even though now I am a shareholder. However I think we would all agree a salary of £100,000 a year to play football at League One (which is only a job for 10 months of the year and even then its not a full day) is jolly well paid.

All these guys are doing is ******* money out of the game, making you and I pay increased ticket prices for bugger all loyality, end of the day its who is going to pay me the most, yet we treat them like hero's. I ask you who are the daft b'stards here ?

Now my point is, do you want our club to cave in a pay "average" footballers £3k or more and force up ticket prices to £25 a game with no guarantee of success or remain disciplined and say this is our bugget/projected income and this is what we can afford to pay. I for one think every football club will see average attendances fall this year and clubs from Premier League to League Two clubs are being thrifty, so far we have spent more money on Transfers than Man Utd and West Ham in the close season, I know thats a daft stat but its somewhat a sign of the times.

So what would you do if you was Ron Martin, love to hear everyones thoughts here rather than just the normal whinge

 

[J]

If i was Ron Martin, i would resign.

 

[WESTY_SUFC]

I am not going to start a thread and moan about our chairmen or manager for lack of signings, I mean 3 months ago this board was full of praise saying we had the best chairman in the league who really did care about the club and the fans.

Now I want to spin the other arguement and ask are modern day footballers getting too big for their boots and are Agents just gready low life bottom feeders ? I know for a fact when I see Barry Silkman on TV i want to land a punch in his fat face.

No one really knows what our players earn but the common myth is the better players are on £2k a week maybe £3k ? I for one respect privacy so I dont want to know to the exact penny what each player is earning even though now I am a shareholder. However I think we would all agree a salary of £100,000 a year to play football at League One (which is only a job for 10 months of the year and even then its not a full day) is jolly well paid.

All these guys are doing is ******* money out of the game, making you and I pay increased ticket prices for bugger all loyality, end of the day its who is going to pay me the most, yet we treat them like hero's. I ask you who are the daft b'stards here ?

Now my point is, do you want our club to cave in a pay "average" footballers £3k or more and force up ticket prices to £25 a game with no guarantee of success or remain disciplined and say this is our bugget/projected income and this is what we can afford to pay. I for one think every football club will see average attendances fall this year and clubs from Premier League to League Two clubs are being thrifty, so far we have spent more money on Transfers than Man Utd and West Ham in the close season, I know thats a daft stat but its somewhat a sign of the times.

So what would you do if you was Ron Martin, love to hear everyones thoughts here rather than just the normal whinge

I personnally would rather pay more money and see the club spend and be more ambitious. Thats just a personal view, i know not everyone thinks like that.

Im sure if Alex Ferguson wanted to buy certain players then the board would give him pretty much limitless funds to sign whoever he wanted so i dont think you can compare us to them.

I know for a fact (unless im being lied to by him) that Ron Martin backs Tilly with cash within reason.

There is still 3 weeks to go, we still have a strong backbone of a team but i agree we are crying out for some new players, fingers crossed we will get a few in before the season starts. Just hope it doesnt come to panick buying like the Championship season!

 

[Red Rum Revell]

Just hope it doesnt come to panick buying like the Championship season!

I was thinking about this last night.
Have we again had a frustrating pre-season in terms of transfers (as we did 2 years ago) as most players now sign on for 2 seasons and therefore it's similar names & targets who we're failing to attract (e.g. Byfield)?

Or is it just simply coincidence as well as the monetary knock-on of needing to fund the stadium in a tougher financial climate?

 

[BILLERICAY BLUE]

I'd rather we cut our cloth accordingly, and still had a club to support in 5 years time.

 

[Rob1920]

Apologies in advance for reposting this, but Its more relevent to this topic & probably no one read it last time anyway! Here goes:

Just a general comment that relates to all threads involving how much we're spending (or not) on transfer fees & player salaries etc:

Some people seem to forget, over the past few years we've had the income not only from increased attendances, but also 2 LDV finals, cup runs, and plenty of TV revenue. And during those years, we've spent the money we've had on a number of things including transfer fees and higher player salaries.

Over the past year we've been relegated, not had the cup runs or the TV money, and attendances, while good, are not the 10k we had in the Championship. Meanwhile, we've got a decent squad of players and a wage bill thats probably trebled over the past few years, plus we've invested a lot in the youth policy and the club in general.

We're now heading into at best, uncertain times, at worst, a full blown recession which will almost certainly have an inpact on gate receipts.

Is Ron being cautious? Of course he is! He's got every reason and right to. He's the reason we've now got a stable forward looking club. If he refuses to be held to ransom by player or agent demands, or if he feels he can't justify spending more than a certain amount on a player, then personally I support him 100%.

No doubt people will mention the Freddy money, but I think that already probably goes towards maintaining the salary & cost levels we already have. The gate receipts from crowds of 8000 with not much other income coming our way will only stretch so far.

Sorry if this is a bit off topic for this particular thread but I keep reading posts about how we should be giving players what they want & paying bigger transfer fees etc., and I just think some people don't seem to stop and think about the bigger picture and ask themselves where they think the money comes from?

Rant over..

 

[Southend_Lady]

I was thinking about this last night.
Have we again had a frustrating pre-season in terms of transfers (as we did 2 years ago) as most players now sign on for 2 seasons and therefore it's similar names & targets who we're failing to attract (e.g. Byfield)?

Or is it just simply coincidence as well as the monetary knock-on of needing to fund the stadium in a tougher financial climate?

Think this has to the statement that is bang on the money.

It really annoys me when people go on about splashing the cash. I'd far rather struggle for a couple of seasons while saving for the new ground than go mad with the money and have no club left to support. You only have to look at clubs like Luton to see how easy it is to get into trouble. Would you want to start the new season in our new ground with -30 points?! No I don't think so.

I just think sometimes people expect too much and need to realise we are Southend United not Manchester United. How anyone can even begin to compare our baord to theirs in terms of "backing with cash" is unbelieveable.

Yes it's frustating that we can't seem to attract any players at the moment and personally I think we are in for a pretty dire season. However, as long as we don't end up relegated I am not al that fussed. Wait until we are in the new ground, then see if we are able to attract better players.

 

[cockles is back]

damn!!!
I thought this thread was about cars!!!!

 

[Ozzer]

Apologies in advance for reposting this, but Its more relevent to this topic & probably no one read it last time anyway! Here goes:

Just a general comment that relates to all threads involving how much we're spending (or not) on transfer fees & player salaries etc:

Some people seem to forget, over the past few years we've had the income not only from increased attendances, but also 2 LDV finals, cup runs, and plenty of TV revenue. And during those years, we've spent the money we've had on a number of things including transfer fees and higher player salaries.

Over the past year we've been relegated, not had the cup runs or the TV money, and attendances, while good, are not the 10k we had in the Championship. Meanwhile, we've got a decent squad of players and a wage bill thats probably trebled over the past few years, plus we've invested a lot in the youth policy and the club in general.

We're now heading into at best, uncertain times, at worst, a full blown recession which will almost certainly have an inpact on gate receipts.

Is Ron being cautious? Of course he is! He's got every reason and right to. He's the reason we've now got a stable forward looking club. If he refuses to be held to ransom by player or agent demands, or if he feels he can't justify spending more than a certain amount on a player, then personally I support him 100%.

No doubt people will mention the Freddy money, but I think that already probably goes towards maintaining the salary & cost levels we already have. The gate receipts from crowds of 8000 with not much other income coming our way will only stretch so far.

Sorry if this is a bit off topic for this particular thread but I keep reading posts about how we should be giving players what they want & paying bigger transfer fees etc., and I just think some people don't seem to stop and think about the bigger picture and ask themselves where they think the money comes from?

Rant over..

Spot on. It seems people think that you can wave a magic wand and this stash of cash appears to buy players at unrealistic prices. I've said it before Ron's own business is going through hard times due to the current economic climate and he has to find money not only to keep the club afloat (we're still in debt) but to also build a new stadium. Don't compare us with Man Utd or the like, try Luton Town or Rotherham and you will see we are a successful club in comparison. This season will not be easy but we'll still be able to have a league club to follow in the future.

 

[BILLERICAY BLUE]

If i was Ron Martin, i would resign.

J, in answer to your comment on the neg rep you gave me, you state that with Ron Martin the club is going nowhere. I thought I'd check some things with you -

Is this the same Ron Martin who was employed to save us from almost certain Bankruptcy?

Is this the same Ron Martin, who employed arguably the best manager this club has ever had?

Is this the same Ron Martin who has been in charge of the club, while they have risen from the depths of League 2 to become a club that has won promotion to The Championship?

is this the same Ron Martin who has been in charge of the club that has been to Millenium Stadium 3 times in his tenure?

Is this the same Ron Martin who has been in charge of the club, while they have beaten the best team in England, a team which, with only 4 changes, beat Roma 7-1 just 3 months later?

Is this the same Ron Martin who has against all the odds, gained vital planning permission for a new stadium, something which no other Southend chairman over the past 30 years was able to do?

Just thought I'd check.

Oh, and with regard to the "Wet Pants" jibe in your neg rep comment, what are you, 8 years old?

 

[bishmania]

Just look at Scarborough and Halifax. they have gone bust after trying to make it a little further than they were and are now out of business.

It's taken Aldershot 16 years to work their way back into the football league.

At the end of the day if you give someone £3,000 on a three-year contract and he turns out to be cack then you're stuck with that player for those three years unless someone wants to buy him or you agree a cushty release fee.

We must buy sensibly, especially with a stadium to pay for, the money will then start to go up after its built and we can then start dreaming of splashing the cash in the summer,

I always thought Ron was a bit of an arse but he has proved in the last couple of years that he is far from it. He has the club at heart (proved by the coaches, the transfer kitty in january that pushed us into the play offs and the small matter of him pushing and pushing and pushing until we got permission for the new ground).

And because he has the club at heart he does not want to see it go down the drain. I bet luton's fans were loving the money they were spending when they were challenging for the Championship play offs but now talk about those money men as if they were Osama Bin Laden.

It's a hard job being chairman because you don't get any thanks from fans wanting more. I like everyone here wants to see the big names coming down to the Hall and playing Arsenal-like football but I appreciate that can't happen because we have to live inside our means.

When the football world starts crumbling and more and more end up in administration, we will stand here and thank Ron for being one of the greatest men to chair this clu in its history.

In my opinion he's pretty close to that accolade already.

 

[shrimpfan]

right title

mercenary working or acting merely for money or other reward mercenarie origin 1350-1400 working for pay (hired worker]

 

[J]

J, in answer to your comment on the neg rep you gave me, you state that with Ron Martin the club is going nowhere. I thought I'd check some things with you -

Is this the same Ron Martin who was employed to save us from almost certain Bankruptcy?

Is this the same Ron Martin, who employed arguably the best manager this club has ever had?

Is this the same Ron Martin who has been in charge of the club, while they have risen from the depths of League 2 to become a club that has won promotion to The Championship?

is this the same Ron Martin who has been in charge of the club that has been to Millenium Stadium 3 times in his tenure?

Is this the same Ron Martin who has been in charge of the club, while they have beaten the best team in England, a team which, with only 4 changes, beat Roma 7-1 just 3 months later?

Is this the same Ron Martin who has against all the odds, gained vital planning permission for a new stadium, something which no other Southend chairman over the past 30 years was able to do?

Just thought I'd check.

Oh, and with regard to the "Wet Pants" jibe in your neg rep comment, what are you, 8 years old?

****ing hell fella, don't take it toooo seriously will you.. Jeez-

In answer to your post which was an answer to my rep - which was a return for rep you gave me - to my original post.

 

[cockles is back]

thats actually a very good post jay, the share money was soley to make money for the transfer market

 

[TrueBlue]

****ing hell fella, don't take it toooo seriously will you.. Jeez-

In answer to your post which was an answer to my rep - which was a return for rep you gave me - to my original post.

Ron Martin -

is this the same person who couldn't agree contract offers, so thought he'd be the BIG man and put them on the transfer list?

Is the same man who was arrested and investigated for potential fraud and bribary/corruption?

Is this the same man who has so far not managed to make available money for any decent signings this season?

Is this the same man, after a very long losing streak said to tilly his Job was always secure?

Is the same man who comes on to the pitch and spouts bollox, who time and time again promises but doesn't deliver?

Is this the same man, who has taken thousands of pounds of the fans in a share scheme and hasn't had the courtesy to even explain where this has gone and where the players are that we were going to buy with it?

Well Billy Blue is it?

And as for wet pants.. bloody hell mucker, if you think Ron Martin is the saviour, you should be worrying about more than comments that include wet pants in.

Or maybe its just a hate campaign because you mite have to walk a bit further from your house as you wont have the luxury you had from living few yards away when we move ;)

 

[cockles is back]

theres a big council estate by the new ground im sure j will find himself a hole there

 

[BILLERICAY BLUE]

****ing hell fella, don't take it toooo seriously will you.. Jeez-

It's a discussion board, all I was doing was trying to initiate a discussion.

Ron Martin -

is this the same person who couldn't agree contract offers, so thought he'd be the BIG man and put them on the transfer list?

We don't have the money to pay the wages they requested. I think it's fairly common knowledge that they have asked for way over the odds, so what does he do? He can either give in, and have the rest of the squad banging on his door for a pay rise, leading to a totally disgruntled squad when he turns them down, or he can call their bluff and do what he's done. If the players were worth the money they are asking for, clubs would have been banging on Ron's door trying to take them off our hands, and there's no sign that that is the case so far.

Is the same man who was arrested and investigated for potential fraud and bribary/corruption?

Yes, arrested and investigated. Any charges ? No. So until he is charged, I'll take my chances with him.

Is this the same man who has so far not managed to make available money for any decent signings this season?

How do you know he hasn't made any money available? Again it comes down to how much money we actually have. Don't forget we are still technically 4.5m in debt. Would you have paid 400k for Gillespie like Colchester did ?

Is this the same man, after a very long losing streak said to tilly his Job was always secure?

Good on him for doing so, too many chairman get jumpy after a few bad results. This club has had a revolving door policy with regards to it's managers for far too long, and I for one am glad he stuck by Tilly when the going got a bit tough.

Is the same man who comes on to the pitch and spouts bollox, who time and time again promises but doesn't deliver?

He promised us a new stadium, and it seems as though he's delivered. That could be the single most important thing that has happened to this club in the last 50 years.

Is this the same man, who has taken thousands of pounds of the fans in a share scheme and hasn't had the courtesy to even explain where this has gone and where the players are that we were going to buy with it?

People didn't have to buy the shares. I bought some, just to be a part of the club, but I don't expect a return on them, and I'm not too fussed as to what Ron does with my £120.

Well Billy Blue is it?

And as for wet pants.. bloody hell mucker, if you think Ron Martin is the saviour, you should be worrying about more than comments that include wet pants in.

It just seemed a bit of a childish comment that's all, although I may have missed the Blackadder reference, in which case you are a fornicating baboon :). I do believe in Ron until I see any evidence to the contrary. IMHO the club is far better shape on and off the pitch than it was when he took over, and a lot of that is down to him. He deserves a bit of credit.

 

[McNasty]

Or maybe its just a hate campaign because you mite have to walk a bit further from your house as you wont have the luxury you had from living few yards away when we move ;)

Nail on the head except he doesn't go to many games.

 

[Irate Ian]

Think this has to the statement that is bang on the money.

It really annoys me when people go on about splashing the cash. I'd far rather struggle for a couple of seasons while saving for the new ground than go mad with the money and have no club left to support. You only have to look at clubs like Luton to see how easy it is to get into trouble. Would you want to start the new season in our new ground with -30 points?! No I don't think so.

I just think sometimes people expect too much and need to realise we are Southend United not Manchester United. How anyone can even begin to compare our baord to theirs in terms of "backing with cash" is unbelieveable.

Yes it's frustating that we can't seem to attract any players at the moment and personally I think we are in for a pretty dire season. However, as long as we don't end up relegated I am not al that fussed. Wait until we are in the new ground, then see if we are able to attract better players.

The ambition is and must be that we be in the Championship by the time we move to Fossetts and thereafter that we move toward establishing a foothold in that division.

Much better prospect of profitability from day one in 22K seater stadium if we are playing football at that higher level.

Why else would we need that capacity. Promotion = top priority and when there we can and will need to adjust wage sructures.

I also detest "football mercenaries" and the pricing out of ordinary people from any level of our national sport [particularly in the Premiershite], but we have to be also realists and strike a balance of proportionality.