Lords expenses cheats

[Massimo Giovanni]

So Lord Hanningfield has been getting £300 quid for 20 minutes a day in the House of Lords; and justify s it by explaining they all do it! or something similarly; poor for an explanation/justification. How is this "Essex" finest allowed to do this and surely after his recent incarceration he MUST know better?
Is it US he represents in H of P?

 

[Neil_F]

Is it US he represents in H of P?

He doesn't represent anyone in the House of Lords.

Quite simply he is allowed to do it because that is how the system works. They get £300 for every day they turn up. It doesn't say how long they have to work or what they do, just turn up. I think it is a total disgrace.

I get a bit sick of the likes of Margaret Hodge castigating people and compnaies for obeying the tax law, accusing them of being immoral, yet when they are caught acting immorally on expenses they deploy the, "I was only following the rules" defence. They wrote the rules, and if everyone else should place morality above the law then they should too.

 

[londonblue]

He doesn't represent anyone in the House of Lords.

Quite simply he is allowed to do it because that is how the system works. They get £300 for every day they turn up. It doesn't say how long they have to work or what they do, just turn up. I think it is a total disgrace.

I get a bit sick of the likes of Margaret Hodge castigating people and compnaies for obeying the tax law, accusing them of being immoral, yet when they are caught acting immorally on expenses they deploy the, "I was only following the rules" defence. They wrote the rules, and if everyone else should place morality above the law then they should too.

I don't really think it makes any difference who says what. Taking what you're not morally entitled to is wrong regardless.

 

[OldBlueLady]

I don't really think it makes any difference who says what. Taking what you're not morally entitled to is wrong regardless.

But isn't that the whole point here? They ARE entitled to do exactly what Lord Hanningfield says. It'd be a massive vote winner for me if one of the major parties came out with a proposal of a proper overhaul of all Parliamentary expenses and wages, put them in line with the man on the street - and I don't mean a street paved with gold.

 

[londonblue]

I don't really think it makes any difference who says what. Taking what you're not morally entitled to is wrong regardless.

However, did you know that the average MP "fraud" (the total divided by the number of MPs) amounts to about £2500 each? I reckon I'm not alone in asking people who have done work on my house to give me a deal for cash. I reckon that has amounted to more than £2500 over time.

So, if we want to talk about hypocrisy I think we ALL need to take a long hard look at ourselves too. Those in glass houses and all that.

 

[londonblue]

I don't really think it makes any difference who says what. Taking what you're not morally entitled to is wrong regardless.

But isn't that the whole point here? They ARE entitled to do exactly what Lord Hanningfield says. It'd be a massive vote winner for me if one of the major parties came out with a proposal of a proper overhaul of all Parliamentary expenses and wages, put them in line with the man on the street - and I don't mean a street paved with gold.

You missed the word "morally". What's more he then tried to justify the £300 a day by saying that he spent about £150 a day so he wasn't making much profit. Maybe in his books £150 a day isn't a lot of money, but it is to most people in this country. After all it equates to a salary of about £50,000 pa, and that's assuming he hasn't exaggerated his spending...

 

[Napster]

However, did you know that the average MP "fraud" (the total divided by the number of MPs) amounts to about £2500 each? I reckon I'm not alone in asking people who have done work on my house to give me a deal for cash. I reckon that has amounted to more than £2500 over time.

So, if we want to talk about hypocrisy I think we ALL need to take a long hard look at ourselves too. Those in glass houses and all that.

ps average, so some were good, some were bad. The bad ones were monstrous....and yes of course it's bad.

 

[OldBlueLady]

You missed the word "morally". What's more he then tried to justify the £300 a day by saying that he spent about £150 a day so he wasn't making much profit. Maybe in his books £150 a day isn't a lot of money, but it is to most people in this country. After all it equates to a salary of about £50,000 pa.

I think that morals are not particularly high on the list of values of certain of those in the combined Houses! :nope:

 

[londonblue]

I think that morals are not particularly high on the list of values of certain of those in the combined Houses! :nope:

I don't think they're any different to you and me. Have you ever (or a partner) asked for cash discount? (You don't have to answer that if you don't want to implicate yourself, but you get the point I'm trying to make...)

 

[Uncle Leo]

I don't think they're any different to you and me. Have you ever (or a partner) asked for cash discount? (You don't have to answer that if you don't want to implicate yourself, but you get the point I'm trying to make...)

I see where you're coming from. We paid our removal guys cash in hand rather than cop a couple of hundred quid in VAT and that is a bit wrong to be honest.

However, it does appear that what Hannigfield is doing is rather more systematic. Just clocking in 19 times a month in order to pick up £300 a day - does the man have no shame?

 

[londonblue]

I see where you're coming from. We paid our removal guys cash in hand rather than cop a couple of hundred quid in VAT and that is a bit wrong to be honest.

Indeed. And that is about £200 VAT less for HMRC, not to mention the fact that the removal men wouldn't have put that through their books at all, thus saving corporation tax.

I wonder how much our taxes could go down if we didn't all do that kind of thing...probably not at all because governments set taxes based on what they can get away with politically rather than how much they actually need, but again, you (hopefully) get the point.

However, it does appear that what Hannigfield is doing is rather more systematic. Just clocking in 19 times a month in order to pick up £300 a day - does the man have no shame?

Possibly, but in my view the principle is the same. It's fraud.

 

[Pubey]

I pay pretty much every house job in cash, whether they put it through for tax is up to them. I don't ask for a discount.

Am I bad?

 

[londonblue]

I pay pretty much every house job in cash, whether they put it through for tax is up to them. I don't ask for a discount.

Am I bad?

That's for you to decide. All I'm saying is that we shouldn't castigate others for doing something that we would probably do ourselves...

 

[Uncle Leo]

That's for you to decide. All I'm saying is that we shouldn't castigate others for doing something that we would probably do ourselves...

You see, I'm not sure I could be so brazen as Lord Hanningfield. Through work, I could easily play the expenses game to my advantage, but don't as it just feels wrong.

No less wrong than paying a removal man in cash perhaps. It's not necessarily black and white though.

 

[Pubey]

That's for you to decide. All I'm saying is that we shouldn't castigate others for doing something that we would probably do ourselves...

To be fair the main reason I do it is because I don't have a clue where my cheque book is!

 

[OldBlueLady]

I don't think they're any different to you and me. Have you ever (or a partner) asked for cash discount? (You don't have to answer that if you don't want to implicate yourself, but you get the point I'm trying to make...)

I don't think I have, cos I rarely have ever held the cash! :smile:

Do not people just think of it as a form of bartering though when it's your ordinary every day person? I mean the people asking, not the people supplying the goods/service. The onus is surely on THAT person/company to declare earnings or whatever.

I agree with James, Hanningfield's example is a far more systematic "milking" of a system that is desperately out of touch.

 

[londonblue]

I don't think I have, cos I rarely have ever held the cash! :smile:

Do not people just think of it as a form of bartering though when it's your ordinary every day person? I mean the people asking, not the people supplying the goods/service. The onus is surely on THAT person/company to declare earnings or whatever.

I agree with James, Hanningfield's example is a far more systematic "milking" of a system that is desperately out of touch.

To me that's a poor justification. You know full well when you make such an offer what the implication is. Why else would someone give you a cash discount?

 

[mrsblue]

"Within the rules" is often cited by these money grabbing parasites and LH already done for fiddling has no remorse for claiming £300 a day for nothing!,With a wallet busting pay increase being lined up it all has become one big joke.

 

[OldBlueLady]

To me that's a poor justification. You know full well when you make such an offer what the implication is. Why else would someone give you a cash discount?

I've heard people ask (and get) if there's a discount for cash in furniture and electrical shops, you're not telling me such an implication is there in those places? It's asking for "best" price isn't it? You see it all the time on the antiques programmes on tv! You can't tar everyone with the same brush, some people genuinely do knock a bit off AND still put it through the books.

 

[londonblue]

I've heard people ask (and get) if there's a discount for cash in furniture and electrical shops, you're not telling me such an implication is there in those places? It's asking for "best" price isn't it? You see it all the time on the antiques programmes on tv! You can't tar everyone with the same brush, some people genuinely do knock a bit off AND still put it through the books.

As I said earlier, I'm talking about asking for a cash discount from someone doing work on your house. I didn't mention, and have not at any time talked about shops. Let's not widen the scope.