Junior doctors row: 98% vote in favour of strikes

[RHB]

The title says it all. For a 98% vote to have occurred here the junior doctors must be pretty upset. Lets hope there is a bit of sense here from both sides and arbitration can sort it out. At the moment that looks pretty unlikely. I'm not certain, but I believe this is the first time in the history of the NHS that junior doctors have voted for industrial action.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-34859860

 

[Pubey]

Junior doctors

Just voted 98% in favour of a strike with over 76% turnout. Huge result, and sad times that it's had to come to this.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-34859860

#notfairnotsafe

 

[KAB]

Just voted 98% in favour of a strike with over 76% turnout. Huge result, and sad times that it's had to come to this.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-34859860

#notfairnotsafe

It is indeed sad but highly indicative of a government that consistently undermines front line staff whilst preaching the mantra of how they wish to keep front line staff. I cannot think of a public sector situation, where a job has failed because of a shortage of managers yet it is they who make the decisions to get rid of and or reduce the numbers of folk that actually do the job. Junior doctors have my full support.

 

[RHB]

Mods - I see that Pubey has opened a thread in the Politics section for this. It probably sits better there so could you close this one. Thanks

 

[RHB]

The title says it all. For a 98% vote to have occurred here the junior doctors must be pretty upset. Lets hope there is a bit of sense here from both sides and arbitration can sort it out. At the moment that looks pretty unlikely. I'm not certain, but I believe this is the first time in the history of the NHS that junior doctors have voted for industrial action.

 

[Pubey]

It is indeed sad but highly indicative of a government that consistently undermines front line staff whilst preaching the mantra of how they wish to keep front line staff. I cannot think of a public sector situation, where a job has failed because of a shortage of managers yet it is they who make the decisions to get rid of and or reduce the numbers of folk that actually do the job. Junior doctors have my full support.

I agree, the flack that doctors (and other frontline staff) are getting from the current government is just awful. Some of the spin and comments from Hunt and the DH have been horrendous - just pure lies.

The government are appealing for more doctors to be trained, but they're doing a good job of forcing highly skilled doctors abroad where there are better working condtions.

On a related note, Doctors (and other frontline staff) want to do their job, what they're trained to do and what they're good at doing. Behind the frontline staff you need a strong managerial team to recruit, organise, manage, evaluate and improve services. The idea that somehow the 'solution' so some problem is to just get rid of 'paperpushing managers' is laughable, and just shows people up for not really understanding how a complex health service operates. Speak to any doctor and their most valued colleagues include ward clerks, secretaries, directorate managers, finance managers, procurement officers, HR managers etc. They are all essential to provide health care.

 

[Berrichonne shrimper]

I hear on the deaf and dumb grapevine that 3% of these so called junior doctors are really refugees from Wycombe.

I think they are overworked and underpaid.

 

[Berrichonne shrimper]

Doctors nurses police firemen soilders mps are all overworked and under paid so lets hope they all dont strike at once,well not the mp,s who cares about that bunch of *******s.

 

[KAB]

I have no problem with good management but I do see, on a daily basis how managers create work, where none exists. If you ask managers to save money, they are hardly likely to turn round and offer up their own position in order to save a front line post. Its an impossible task that has befallen managers in public sector jobs but someone somewhere has to realise that attacking,front line staff, on numbers, pay or conditions will only lead to a deterioration in standards. Ministers are generally quite ignorant of the realities because managers are keen to tell their bosses that they're are coping and feeds all the way to the top. From personal experience I know that when I say I cannot cope with the work load, it reaches the senior managers as the work is difficult but is being done, by the time that reaches a minister it translates as, the work is getting done and there is scope for more savings. No one wins.

 

[Napster]

Maybe if Labour hadn't saddled the public purse with unaffordable PFI plans the NHS budget might be more manageable.

Of course, once Hunt goes and he will, expect BoJo or Gove to come in.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Maybe if Labour hadn't saddled the public purse with unaffordable PFI plans the NHS budget might be more manageable.

Of course, once Hunt goes and he will, expect BoJo or Gove to come in.

The government is trying to get junior doctors to work on Saturdays as part of their normal working week, without overtime pay for it.That's not on.

You can't run a 24/7 NHS on a five day budget.This would appear to be the first step in an attempt to privatise the NHS completely.

 

[Napster]

The government is trying to get junior doctors to work on Saturdays as part of their normal working week, without overtime pay for it.That's not on.

You can't run a 24/7 NHS on a five day budget.This would appear to be the first step in an attempt to privatise the NHS completely.

Hence my post. ps the NHS has been privatised for years. I seem to remember Labour under Blair pushing a two-tier system.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Hence my post. ps the NHS has been privatised for years. I seem to remember Labour under Blair pushing a two-tier system.

You've ignored the first part of my post completely.That's what the strike's (quite rightly) about.

The government is trying to get junior doctors to work on Saturdays as part of their normal working week, without overtime pay for it.That's not on.

 

[Napster]

You've ignored the first part of my post completely.That's what the strike's (quite rightly about).

and you've ignored my part about the PFI deals under Labour.

:raspberry:

 

[mrsblue]

and you've ignored my part about the PFI deals under Labour.

:raspberry:

Those PFI schemes were so expensive to repay it was totally bonkers !

Maybe if the NHS stopped trying to be the world's doctor and nurse then maybe it will be ok.

Hunt really hasn't got a scooby.

 

[Tinks]

I am on the side of the doctors here and fully support what they are saying.
Read the proposals and you will see -yes there is an 11% pay rise but, out goes night and weekend rates and the hours worked are that not more reduced than they are now.
I work with many doctors as many of you know and also run teams in health and I can honestly say hand on heart this is the worst I have ever known our NHS in respect to workload and expectations. Recruitment is a major issue as most people working within the system are tired and morale is low with plenty looking abroad to work under better conditions.
I am fortunate as I have the option to leave next year if I wish and it is something I am seriously considering doing due to the pressures.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Maybe if Labour hadn't saddled the public purse with unaffordable PFI plans the NHS budget might be more manageable.

Of course, once Hunt goes and he will, expect BoJo or Gove to come in.

Gove had an appalling record of keeping teaching engaged and Bojo has been the same with tube staff (announcing 24hour tube without having any agreement with those who will need to work it is almost identical to what Hunt is attempting) so I can't see either of those managing a way out of this one.

With that level of opposition to the changes from the staff surely the only option is to postpone the changes and stick to current rosters.

 

[Bearded Shrimper]

This would appear to be the first step in an attempt to privatise the NHS completely.

Hence my post. ps the NHS has been privatised for years. I seem to remember Labour under Blair pushing a two-tier system.

there's always been private providers in the NHS, from the very start it was the GPs.

it's funny how this government spent ages going on about how strikes could only be called if over 50% of those balloted called for it and are now saying this strike can't go ahead.
they need to change the proposals and get back around the table to stop this strike to find a better way to bring about what they want

 

[southendkid]

"Study after study has shown that our mortality rates at weekends are too high," he said.

Is he still going on about this? The researchers themselves have said "It is not possible to ascertain the extent to which these excess deaths may be preventable; to assume that they are avoidable would be rash and misleading."

http://www.nhsconfed.org/resources/...-looking-at-increased-weekend-mortality-rates

 

[Gremlin]

All a bit short-sighted if you ask me. The sooner the Junior Doctors complete their training the sooner they can leave the NHS, go private and absolutely coin it in.