Is Tilly safe?

[shrimperton]

Reading between the lines, i get the feeling Tilly's position aint to secure at Roots Hall purely down to the fact of the money he has wasted at the club from Rons point of view.

Ron has critised in the past about this

Ron in the past has given money to spend on new players, but i now think imo that Ron doesnt trust Tilly with a penny of the club money.

Paynter 250k, Foran 250k (2yr saga), Ricketts wages etc, Revelll 150k, Harrold, are a few in a long list

Tillys record in the transfer is at best poor, ok we have had Bailey Clarke and Eastwood.

Largely his sucessful buys have come with a reputation already.

People like Dervitte are gonna be a no brainer in league 1, but actually purchasing players, Ron has no faith in Tilson to get the right players in.

Maybe now Ron is regretting the long contract he gave him.

I like Tilly, but is Ron looking at it like i think he is?

 

[palexander]

I get this feeling too - the selling of players above his head, turning down bids for players etc - that should come down to the management.

I'd love Steve Tilson to have come out and spoke yesterday - at least on the Macca thing. I appreciate his hands are tied on the outgoings a bit - but surely if we are cash-strapped, then Macca SHOULD have been sold?

None of it adds up...

 

[Roxy]

I get this feeling too - the selling of players above his head, turning down bids for players etc - that should come down to the management.

I'd love Steve Tilson to have come out and spoke yesterday - at least on the Macca thing. I appreciate his hands are tied on the outgoings a bit - but surely if we are cash-strapped, then Macca SHOULD have been sold?

None of it adds up...

On the other hand to turn your argument on its head, maybe Tilly was consulted and was not too keen on letting one of our key players go!

You seem to assume and be up in arms that Tilly was not consulted re Revs & Betsy but then contradict yourself by saying the Board should have sold Macca!

Perhaps you should consider the wild possibility that Tilly was consulted re Macca and that Tilly probably and quite rightly did not want to let one of our best players go and the Board actually listened to him!

Just a thought.

 

[Mad Cyril]

Or perhaps Ron went to Tilson and said we need to slash this from the wage bill. Is there anything we can to to achieve this?

 

[Roxy]

Or perhaps Ron went to Tilson and said we need to slash this from the wage bill. Is there anything we can to to achieve this?

Quite possibily, happens in business all the time.

Most companies have monthly management figures available to them and in the current economic climate many will be looking to save on outgoings wherever they can without being detrimental to the business.

Revs & Betsy were fringe players and if the Club can get their wages paid to free up some much needed cash then so be it.

 

[Rob1920]

Or perhaps Ron went to Tilson and said we need to slash this from the wage bill. Is there anything we can to to achieve this?

I would hope & think that this is the most likely reason for the recent departures.

 

[palexander]

On the other hand to turn your argument on its head, maybe Tilly was consulted and was not too keen on letting one of our key players go!

You seem to assume and be up in arms that Tilly was not consulted re Revs & Betsy but then contradict yourself by saying the Board should have sold Macca!

Perhaps you should consider the wild possibility that Tilly was consulted re Macca and that Tilly probably and quite rightly did not want to let one of our best players go and the Board actually listened to him!

Just a thought.

I'd love to believe it WAS Tilsons decision to sanction ALL the moves over the last 24 hours - in fact, I'd love him to have come out on the site yesterday and said so.

Say "Revell wasnt in my plans and the move will be good for him" - he cannot, as he was in his first XI and would have played Friday.

Say "Alan McCormack is going nowhere as he is an important member of the side".

If the club has financial problems - which we have to assume they do - then all I am saying is that if we really DID have a bid for McCormack, would any of us had a problem with him being sold? (ok, maybe OBL would have had a breakdown).

Its an area we are well covered and we need (ok, *I* need is all I can say!) to be stop treated like idiots.

If the statement on the site from Ron Martin said "It is with reluctance that we have accepted Swindons £100,000 bid for Alan, but this will ensure further financial stability for the club" would anyone really be up in arms?

I'd be a little bit annoyed, but could ACCEPT the truth - if McCormack being sold means I have a club to watch then so be it.

If Revell has to go out on loan to save wages - the so be it - but dont treat us like mugs and make personal slurs on Revells ability.

 

[shrimperton]

Quite possibily, happens in business all the time.

Most companies have monthly management figures available to them and in the current economic climate many will be looking to save on outgoings wherever they can without being detrimental to the business.

Revs & Betsy were fringe players and if the Club can get their wages paid to free up some much needed cash then so be it.

With only 15 fit pro's i dont think anyone is a fringe player at southend, its a squad we need to compete this season, Barney's bound to get inj sooner or later and freedman wont be fit much longer with his inj record.

Would like to think Tilly had some part in it, if not then he must be upset about going above his head.

I have no clue whats going on, much like anyone else we are kept in the dark but outside looking in, its give the impression we are serious trouble.

We cannot go a season with the squad we have and survive and it looks like even loan players are hard to come by now.

 

[Lester Bangs]

He's well safe, sound as a pound infact.

 

[bishmania]

You will not believe that the following words are being typed by me, one of those 'rose-tinted' fans some of you keep talking about......

I've got this horrible feeling that Tilly will resign this weekend.

He'll try and go out a hero (not that he needs anymore of a hero status) by beating Orient then just walk away from it.

He's done a bloomin' marvellous job with us, much better than Ferguson at Peterboro' or Martinez at Swansea. The only reason he hasn't gone anywhere big like Martinez, Di Matteo, Ince, etc..is because Steve Tilson just isn't fashionable enough (and I don't mean dress sense).

However, a manager with his credentials sitting there as a free agent, will not be out of work for long.

Revs was someone Tilly tracked for a long time before he came here and I believe there is some sort of friendship there, plus he'd obviously thought he'd deserved a chance by playing him against Hull and Swindon and bringing him on in the games before that (I personally thought Revs was much more effective against Millwall in the 15 he played, compared to Dougie's 75).

If TILSON didn't believe he was an asset to the team then TILSON would have said so first, it's TILSON who makes the footballing decisions, NOT KING, it's TILSON who would get the bullet if footballing changes were needed, NOT KING, and TILSON who has to suffer the fan's abuse if the team is playing badly, NOT KING.

This suggests to me that Tilson isn't happy with the loan away of Revs. Even if he was happy to let Revs get game time elsewhere he can't have been too happy with King's damning condemnation of Revs' time here. No matter what anyone thinks of Revs, the guy was clearly a popular character among fans and more importantly in the dressing room (Barney makes that point on his Blues insider interview today), meaning those extremely comments about a colleague and a friend to these players are likely to have a detrimental effect on morale.

Plus, if Revs suddenly finds a scoring streak and bangs in 20 goals by January, haven't the comments by Mr King burnt all our bridges with him and not given Tilson the hope of re-using this particular player.

Tilson may agree that Revs hasn't produced his best, but a manager complaining of a threadbare squad doesn't get rid of someone who can play in two different positions (wide right and up front), especially on transfer deadline day.

King's comments aside, I think I wouldn't have been so worried about the loaning out of Revs and Bettsy if it had been a little while back.

If the club was so concerned about the money they would be "wasting" on Revell and Betsy then why not loan them out earlier, not jump into what I feel is a panic decision on transfer deadline day.

I love my club, which is why after reading all the negative comments on here today and in the Echo, I jumped straight on the phone to buy me and my SUFC supporting missus (well she is now!) two tickets to Friday's game.

Things have gone on in the past 48 hours that I totally don't agree with but I'm not going to let a couple of bad apples (well one particularly in Mr King) sour the name of the club I've supported since I was a kid, and I'm not going to let the Orient laugh at us.

Unity as fans is what will get us through any potential setbacks, so even if it is Tilly's last game, I'm going to make sure I'm there to let him know what he means to us and has done for us in the face of adversity (I don't think I need to list his credentials).

If it wasn't for him, we may well have reached a winding up situation five years ago when we were in danger of slipping out of the football league.

I desperately want him to stay, but could understand it completely if he were to walk away from the club.

Please excuse the essay, but these are most of my thoughts from the last 24 hours.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

I think there are more grounds for Tilly to be sacked than for him to walk out. Fortunately we probably haven't got the money to sack him.

Ultimately any manager (except maybe Mark Hughes) has to work within a budget. Sure, it's not easy when that budget is being tightened but I think few would argue that Revell and Betsy have been sucesses (as opposed to they might have become successes). We need to trim the squad down. You lot get far too carried away with the need for a 64 man squad. We can get by on a tight-knit squad of 18 topped up with youths and month long loanees as and when you get injuries. You can only use 14 on match day, and Tilly isn't even keen on doing that. How big was our squad for our play-off and title winning seasons?


The players that we've lost aren't integral to the club's fortunes. I'd like to think that the timing has as much to do with the return to fitness of Laurent and Scannell, making those two expendable.

The fact that the budget is stretched is as much down to Tilly's mistakes in the transfer market, but I've full faith that Tilly is the man to steer us through these challenges using his man management skills and picking up the bargains who want to play for the shirt not the pay packet.

 

[BoyWonder2]

I'd love to believe it WAS Tilsons decision to sanction ALL the moves over the last 24 hours - in fact, I'd love him to have come out on the site yesterday and said so.

Say "Revell wasnt in my plans and the move will be good for him" - he cannot, as he was in his first XI and would have played Friday.

Say "Alan McCormack is going nowhere as he is an important member of the side".

If the club has financial problems - which we have to assume they do - then all I am saying is that if we really DID have a bid for McCormack, would any of us had a problem with him being sold? (ok, maybe OBL would have had a breakdown).

Its an area we are well covered and we need (ok, *I* need is all I can say!) to be stop treated like idiots.

If the statement on the site from Ron Martin said "It is with reluctance that we have accepted Swindons £100,000 bid for Alan, but this will ensure further financial stability for the club" would anyone really be up in arms?

I'd be a little bit annoyed, but could ACCEPT the truth - if McCormack being sold means I have a club to watch then so be it.

If Revell has to go out on loan to save wages - the so be it - but dont treat us like mugs and make personal slurs on Revells ability.

Sorry, but how do you know Revell was going to be starting Friday night?

The reason he came in the side for Freedman is because Freedman had a run of games in quick succession and therefore needed the rest. Now his had that rest, I fully expected to see him upfront in place of Revell.

Freedman is a more important memeber of the squad than Revell with all he offers behind the scenes and to the younger generation at the Club.

Yes, I was a fan of Revell and think its a bit of a shame his gone, but to be brutally honest, he didn't really cut the mustard for us whilst he was here which is a shame because his a really likeable guy, works hard etc etc.

 

[palexander]

Sorry, but how do you know Revell was going to be starting Friday night?

The reason he came in the side for Freedman is because Freedman had a run of games in quick succession and therefore needed the rest. Now his had that rest, I fully expected to see him upfront in place of Revell.

Freedman is a more important memeber of the squad than Revell with all he offers behind the scenes and to the younger generation at the Club.

Yes, I was a fan of Revell and think its a bit of a shame his gone, but to be brutally honest, he didn't really cut the mustard for us whilst he was here which is a shame because his a really likeable guy, works hard etc etc.

He would have started Friday (IMO) as he had claimed the shirt and Tilson rarely makes changes for the sake of it (much to his detriment) - so I see no reason why he would bring Freedman back in.

I admit Freedman was being rested, but do you think he would continue to rotate the side every week or so to accommodate Freedman's stamina - if he does, then that is madness.

Freedman is at BEST an impact sub now - who doesnt really make an impact, though I was delighted with his performance at Walsall.

I cannot see the worship of Freedman, I really cannot. Massive wages (relative to us) compared to what he gives the squad (2/3 games a month) and a bad injury record. Surely he will be hanging his boots up at the end of the season too? His goal record isnt anything to shout about - this season anyway. He's had chances he has missed and he's played enough games to be getting the goals (1 this season isnt it?)

I have always like Freedman throughout his career - has always been a player I 'followed' and admired, but this is one year too far. I dont want it to be a witch hunt and I have nothing personal against him aside from I dont think he adds any value to our side, for the amount we are paying him.

Same for James Walker who is a complete and utter waste of a place in the squad. Gives us nothing - this mythical 'pace' I hear so much about, I must be watching another player. Watch highlights of Robinson last season - that is pace and more importantly how to utilise it.

Watch Walker in the warm up, he has so little confidence he can barely run up to the ball to strike it - he like ... slides along dragging his feet and when he strikes the ball it just doesnt look like he believes he can do anything.

I've not got much choice but to lump it for now and put up with Freedman/Walker - but I'm hoping Laurent is fit enough to start.

 

[BoyWonder2]

He would have started Friday (IMO) as he had claimed the shirt and Tilson rarely makes changes for the sake of it (much to his detriment) - so I see no reason why he would bring Freedman back in.

I admit Freedman was being rested, but do you think he would continue to rotate the side every week or so to accommodate Freedman's stamina - if he does, then that is madness.

Freedman is at BEST an impact sub now - who doesnt really make an impact, though I was delighted with his performance at Walsall.

I cannot see the worship of Freedman, I really cannot. Massive wages (relative to us) compared to what he gives the squad (2/3 games a month) and a bad injury record. Surely he will be hanging his boots up at the end of the season too? His goal record isnt anything to shout about - this season anyway. He's had chances he has missed and he's played enough games to be getting the goals (1 this season isnt it?)

I have always like Freedman throughout his career - has always been a player I 'followed' and admired, but this is one year too far. I dont want it to be a witch hunt and I have nothing personal against him aside from I dont think he adds any value to our side, for the amount we are paying him.

Same for James Walker who is a complete and utter waste of a place in the squad. Gives us nothing - this mythical 'pace' I hear so much about, I must be watching another player. Watch highlights of Robinson last season - that is pace and more importantly how to utilise it.

Watch Walker in the warm up, he has so little confidence he can barely run up to the ball to strike it - he like ... slides along dragging his feet and when he strikes the ball it just doesnt look like he believes he can do anything.

I've not got much choice but to lump it for now and put up with Freedman/Walker - but I'm hoping Laurent is fit enough to start.

Freedman may only have one goal this season, but how many has Revell scored? I'm betting that Freedman has a much better goalscoring ratio for us then Revell did.

Revell didn't really claim the shirt from people I've spoke to that saw his performances. I was more impressed with Freedman when I've seen him then Revell this season and that includes pre-season matches.

Freedman has a proven predigree, and yes the legs have gone a bit, but he still offers us something, something which Revell doesn't. I agree that Freedman is best used from the bench, but I don't agree about Revell starting.

Laurent would be my partner for Barnard. Laurent has the height of Revell, he is unpredictable, he goes from the sublime to the ridiculous, he is our very own version of Kanu.

I think your a bit harsh on Walker, who is still only a young kid. He clearly is lacking in confidence and maybe a spell away from the Club on loan would do him good. He has the raw ingredients to make it as a decent player, but he needs to be more confident in his own abilities. He was superb when he came on against Huddersfield. I admit, I thought it should have been Freedman or Revell on, but Walker did everything we know he can do which is what makes it frustrating.

 

[palexander]

Freedman may only have one goal this season, but how many has Revell scored? I'm betting that Freedman has a much better goalscoring ratio for us then Revell did.

Revell didn't really claim the shirt from people I've spoke to that saw his performances. I was more impressed with Freedman when I've seen him then Revell this season and that includes pre-season matches.

Freedman has a proven predigree, and yes the legs have gone a bit, but he still offers us something, something which Revell doesn't. I agree that Freedman is best used from the bench, but I don't agree about Revell starting.

Laurent would be my partner for Barnard. Laurent has the height of Revell, he is unpredictable, he goes from the sublime to the ridiculous, he is our very own version of Kanu.

I think your a bit harsh on Walker, who is still only a young kid. He clearly is lacking in confidence and maybe a spell away from the Club on loan would do him good. He has the raw ingredients to make it as a decent player, but he needs to be more confident in his own abilities. He was superb when he came on against Huddersfield. I admit, I thought it should have been Freedman or Revell on, but Walker did everything we know he can do which is what makes it frustrating.

We clearly have a difference of opinion, and I appreciate that.

Couple of points though - Revell hasnt really had the chances that Freedman has had this season. 1 game v Premier League opposition and a start against a team he knew he would be playing for on the Monday - couple of fleeting sub appearances.

Revell shouldnt be judged on his goalscoring anyway and sadly, he will be by many. If he played right wing more, I'm sure nobody would be so quick to point to that fact.

You could list good and bad in both players and it would probably tally pretty equally - Revell is taller, Revell will chase and work more than anyone else, from what we know, he seems a chirpier character (as Freedman is ALWAYS moaning at players)... so on and so on.

If both players were fit for the whole season, I dont doubt Freedman would probably score twice as many goals as Revell, I'll give you that - but theres the rub...

 

[BoyWonder2]

We clearly have a difference of opinion, and I appreciate that.

Couple of points though - Revell hasnt really had the chances that Freedman has had this season. 1 game v Premier League opposition and a start against a team he knew he would be playing for on the Monday - couple of fleeting sub appearances.

Revell shouldnt be judged on his goalscoring anyway and sadly, he will be by many. If he played right wing more, I'm sure nobody would be so quick to point to that fact.

You could list good and bad in both players and it would probably tally pretty equally - Revell is taller, Revell will chase and work more than anyone else, from what we know, he seems a chirpier character (as Freedman is ALWAYS moaning at players)... so on and so on.

If both players were fit for the whole season, I dont doubt Freedman would probably score twice as many goals as Revell, I'll give you that - but theres the rub...

Don't get me wrong, I'm not just judging Revell on his goals scored or goal ratio for us. I've defended the likes of Revell, Harrold and Broughton on here who all had poor goalscoring records.

Some people don't seen the realise that being a forward isn't all about scoring the goals. Its holding the ball up, working the channels, creating space for midfield runners, brings others into play etc etc.

Don't get me wrong, I like Revell. I went to Stockport away last season, and everyone bar Revell was shocking, and some performances that day was disgusting. I hope he does well, and I think he has been treated unfairly by GK in his comments, but I'm not sheding any tears over his and Betsy's departures.

 

[Beefy]

Reading between the lines, i get the feeling Tilly's position aint to secure at Roots Hall purely down to the fact of the money he has wasted at the club from Rons point of view.

Ron has critised in the past about this

Ron in the past has given money to spend on new players, but i now think imo that Ron doesnt trust Tilly with a penny of the club money.

Paynter 250k, Foran 250k (2yr saga), Ricketts wages etc, Revelll 150k, Harrold, are a few in a long list

Tillys record in the transfer is at best poor, ok we have had Bailey Clarke and Eastwood.

Largely his sucessful buys have come with a reputation already.

People like Dervitte are gonna be a no brainer in league 1, but actually purchasing players, Ron has no faith in Tilson to get the right players in.

Maybe now Ron is regretting the long contract he gave him.

I like Tilly, but is Ron looking at it like i think he is?

Well I hope not.

I think Tilly's transfer record stacks up favourably with anyone. You mention Eastwood, Bailey & Clarke (Clarke?! Really?!) but somehow miss Barrett, Sodje, Bentley, Guttridge, McCormack, Mildenhall, Francis, Barnard, Goater, Gray, Pettefer, Dudfield, Campbell-Ryce, and Hammell.

Even guys like Lee Bradbury, Nicky Nicolau and Steve Collis can say that they did the job that they were brought in to do and let no one down.

You say that Dervite was a "no-brainer", yet I don't recall us beating off the opposition for him. Same with Federici, Harding, Mulgrew, Stanislas, Robinson, Robson-Kanu and Sawyer. Considering how many financial problems we appear to have we're very lucky to have a manager so adept in the loan market.

Yes there have been bad signings. Richie Foran. Michael Ricketts. Billy Paynter. People would argue that Alex Revell and Matt Harrold should be on there. I'd disagree but I'd argue that Peter Clarke was a shocking signing so we've all got our opinions.

Steve Tilson is just about the one decent thing we've got going for us at the moment and I dread the day that he leaves. After all this time it saddens me that people still question him and jump all over his odd mistakes.

 

[Billy Bests boot laces]

We cannot go a season with the squad we have and survive and it looks like even loan players are hard to come by now.

Exactly, and i would hope the board realise this as well and allow the management to attempt to get a couple of loanees in next week. If not and we wait until january, then i fear it will be too late if we are struggling as no player worth his salt would be interested in joining a side with a mountain to climb.

 

[Richard_Cadette]

I think there are more grounds for Tilly to be sacked than for him to walk out. Fortunately we probably haven't got the money to sack him.

Ultimately any manager (except maybe Mark Hughes) has to work within a budget. Sure, it's not easy when that budget is being tightened but I think few would argue that Revell and Betsy have been sucesses (as opposed to they might have become successes). We need to trim the squad down. You lot get far too carried away with the need for a 64 man squad. We can get by on a tight-knit squad of 18 topped up with youths and month long loanees as and when you get injuries. You can only use 14 on match day, and Tilly isn't even keen on doing that. How big was our squad for our play-off and title winning seasons?


The players that we've lost aren't integral to the club's fortunes. I'd like to think that the timing has as much to do with the return to fitness of Laurent and Scannell, making those two expendable.

The fact that the budget is stretched is as much down to Tilly's mistakes in the transfer market, but I've full faith that Tilly is the man to steer us through these challenges using his man management skills and picking up the bargains who want to play for the shirt not the pay packet.

Not sure I fully agree with that to be honest. I don't think there are many grounds on which a chairman could justifiably sack Tilly right now. Even taking our promotion winning seasons out of the equation, I don't think anyone could reasonably expect us to have done any better in the last two season than we have given the budget the manager has had access to.

It would honestly not surprise me if Tilly did at some point in the very near future walk. He has nothing to prove here, and if the current lack of transfer funds persist, it will make his job incresingly more difficult - difficult to the point where it could tarnish the reputation he has worked hard to establish over the recent period.

I know that Tilly likes to work with a tight knit squad, but I'd be surprised if he was integral to Revell leaving yesterday. He was given a start ahead of Freedman last week and on Saturday, and by all accounts, did OK.

It's not just the two fringe players who we have lost, let us not forget - it's also the two loanees, making us 4 light in comparison to Saturday, and I doubt any manager would want that scenario. Yet again, we are left exposed defensively for the game this Friday, something which surely Tilly could not have wanted?

We may not have had the largest squad of players when we won the title, but just look what happened the following season, when we had a thread bare squad? Yes, it was always going to be difficult, but the lack of numbers and alternatives cost us dear. In addition, look how we striggled last season with a small squad - Only a couple of outstanding loan deals saved our bacon, and without them, or had they not have paid off, we could have been stuck in a relegation fight.

If the chairman is not going to back the manager, then I honestly believe Tilly will want to dis-associate himself from any potentially disastrous season.