Is this the beginning of the destruction......

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Is this the beginning of the destruction of the mould of British politics or is it the beginning of the destruction of the Liberal Democrats?
Quite a day yesterday, which ended with probably the only really practical solution on the table. Briefly, hopes were raised on the idea of some LibDem/ Labour pact brokered by Mandelson and co. before some of the old Labour rottweilers were unleashed to see off any Lib Dem overtures. The anger expressed by the Lib Dems concerning Labour's lack of seriousness in negotiating, is something were are probably going to hear more about. Personally, I can well understand many in the Labour Party not being interested in clinging to power with Lib Dem + other support. An agreement that would have probably been short lived and would have led to a Tory landslide at the subsequent election.
So, as someone who fought passionately and bitterly against Conservatives during all my political life in England, how do I feel this morning? ..........STRANGE!.........VERY STRANGE!! I should feel unclean and betrayed..........but surprisingly I don't. I do feel quite excited by the Lib Dems being in government......even if it's as a junior partner. The logical conclusion from our call for electoral reform was likely to result in an arrangement, similar to this one, so it really is a case of puting in to practice, what we have preached.
Could this be a move away from adversarial politics and are we entering into an era where politicians will attempt to work with each other? This certainly would appear to be the hope of Nick Clegg. It seems that the general public are put off by the 'childish bickering' sometimes displayed in the House of Commons and it remains to be seen how they will react to this new style of government.
For the Lib Dems it is a hazardous course but they need to stick with it for the duration. The end is going to be the most difficult and complicated part.......disentangling themselves from the coalition and fighting the next election as an independent and autonomous party with its own policies and projects. We would be able to propose ourselves as a serious party who have had the responsibility of participating in government. On the other hand we will be depicted by the Labour Party as the Tories poodles or lacky's and an irrelevance.........but there again, that would just be going back to the old politics again........wouldn't now??? Interesting times ahead .......me thinks!

 

[A Century United]

The pivot-point will be if and when a serious change to the voting system gets through - even if it is just Alternative Vote, ie PR-Lite. That will spell the difference between rocks and clear blue water I suspect.

 

[Firestorm]

I feel that this could signal the end of the Lib Dems., or certainly drastically cut back the number of votes they get at the next election, particularly if PR comes in.
There was a significant number of voters who voted Lib Dem to keep the Conservatives out in seats where Labour were third place, these people have effectively voted Tory and are unlikely to do that again (and are less likely to need to under PR) Those who voted Lib Dem to oust Labour will be satisfied with the coalition but will not need to do so under PR.

 

[osymandus]

I feel that this could signal the end of the Lib Dems., or certainly drastically cut back the number of votes they get at the next election, particularly if PR comes in.
There was a significant number of voters who voted Lib Dem to keep the Conservatives out in seats where Labour were third place, these people have effectively voted Tory and are unlikely to do that again (and are less likely to need to under PR) Those who voted Lib Dem to oust Labour will be satisfied with the coalition but will not need to do so under PR.

Depends if people are shaken enough by this election to realsie their "tribual" and historical reasons are good enough or if the PR system we have represents the individuals elected and not generalised polices (as we have now ?)

 

[canveyshrimper]

I feel that this could signal the end of the Lib Dems., or certainly drastically cut back the number of votes they get at the next election, particularly if PR comes in.
There was a significant number of voters who voted Lib Dem to keep the Conservatives out in seats where Labour were third place, these people have effectively voted Tory and are unlikely to do that again (and are less likely to need to under PR) Those who voted Lib Dem to oust Labour will be satisfied with the coalition but will not need to do so under PR.

I agree and in many ways it's come full circle as previously a vote for the Lib-Dems may well have gone to prop up Labour. And while many seem to think that tactical voting is a preserve of Labour supporters to keep the Tories out I wouldn't mind betting in some constituencies traditional Tory voters may well have voted Lib-Dem to keep Labour out.

Having said that many disaffected Tory supporters have probably voted UKIP which to all intents and purposes may have cost them a majority.

 

[Jedi Shrimper]

I feel that this could signal the end of the Lib Dems., or certainly drastically cut back the number of votes they get at the next election, particularly if PR comes in.
There was a significant number of voters who voted Lib Dem to keep the Conservatives out in seats where Labour were third place, these people have effectively voted Tory and are unlikely to do that again (and are less likely to need to under PR) Those who voted Lib Dem to oust Labour will be satisfied with the coalition but will not need to do so under PR.

I certainly hope it's not the end for the LibDems. There certainly does seem to be alot of unrest that the LD have sided with the Tories, especially on places like twitter (a fairly left social network it seems). But to my mind if you vote tactically you get what you deserve.

I've voted LD in every general election since I was old enough (4 GE's now), I vote for them because I look at the policies and theirs are usually the ones I agree most with (that's how voting is meant to work right?), and I have no problem with them forming a coalition with the Tories, even though I dislike the Conservatives as much as the next woolly liberal.

As Yogi said at the top of this thread I think it's the most practical solution. A Tory minority government would result in all their policies being voted down, and probably see the libdem % reduced at next election. A Labour-LibDem +others coalition would be severelly unpopular and almost certainly also result in a kicking for the LibDems at next GE. In many ways the hung parliment could be a no win situation for Clegg & LD.

This way however, government gets to function and bills passed. The LibDems get to exert a bit of influence on policy, which they wouldn't have before. It seems like there will be a referendum on the Alternative Voting System (a definate step in the right direction), Fixed term governments are on the way, and the No-Tax-On-1st-£10k policy is on the table. I'm pretty pleased with that.

At least they get show a bit of what they can do. I've never like the fact that successive Tory & Labour governments have these huge majority's which allows them to get any old piece of legislation through no matter how loony it is, now we can put the brakes on the crazy stuff.

I also like the feeling I have for the first time in my voting life that despite the fact I live in a staunchly Tory area my vote has somehow counted, as the party I voted for is influencing government policy.

 

[SARF]

Careful what you wish for with P.R. .. the torys will lose out maybe go to 30 per cent? labour solid at 35 ish .. bnp go up ukip or any pro english parties go up poss 10 per cent between the two of them .. thats 40 per cent guaranteed right wing block more right wing than the current tory party that will have to work together.. labour libs 40 percent? others the balance.. will swing from the moderate left coalition to a harder right coalition depending on sentiment at the time

 

[Hotman]

I agree and in many ways it's come full circle as previously a vote for the Lib-Dems may well have gone to prop up Labour. And while many seem to think that tactical voting is a preserve of Labour supporters to keep the Tories out I wouldn't mind betting in some constituencies traditional Tory voters may well have voted Lib-Dem to keep Labour out.

Having said that many disaffected Tory supporters have probably voted UKIP which to all intents and purposes may have cost them a majority.

I know of at least two people (not me) who did this.

 

[yogi bear up the cagire]

Careful what you wish for with P.R. .. the torys will lose out maybe go to 30 per cent? labour solid at 35 ish .. bnp go up ukip or any pro english parties go up poss 10 per cent between the two of them .. thats 40 per cent guaranteed right wing block more right wing than the current tory party that will have to work together.. labour libs 40 percent? others the balance.. will swing from the moderate left coalition to a harder right coalition depending on sentiment at the time

Think you would have to reach some minimal level in PR to entitle you to representation..............perhaps between 5 and 10% of the vote. However, we are a VERY long way from real PR ............AV is a step in the right direction. This would give England a similar system to France apart from we would presumeably do it in one election rather than the two rounds here. In France, if no one candidate gets 50% of the vote .....there is a second round, a week later, with all the wheeling and dealing that goes on in between.

 

[Jedi Shrimper]

Careful what you wish for with P.R. .. the torys will lose out maybe go to 30 per cent? labour solid at 35 ish .. bnp go up ukip or any pro english parties go up poss 10 per cent between the two of them .. thats 40 per cent guaranteed right wing block more right wing than the current tory party that will have to work together.. labour libs 40 percent? others the balance.. will swing from the moderate left coalition to a harder right coalition depending on sentiment at the time

As Yogi says above, most PR systems do filter out the smallest parties, you're also assuming that the Tories would do a deal with those other parties, and whilst maybe they would with UKIP I don't think they'd risk a coalition with the BNP.

Below is a nice simple explanation of the different forms of PR that even i could understand. Personally I'd like to see AV+
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8644480.stm