Immigration from Romania and Bulgaria

[Tangled up in Blue]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/jan/27/uk-immigration-romania-bulgaria-ministers

"Romanian or Bulgarian?You won't like it here".
Will they though?And should they be discouraged from coming?
Since Romania and Bulgaria become full member states of the EU at the end of the year it seems to me that there's little the UK Government can do about it.
In any case the situation is certainly rather different from the last mass immigration in this country by the Poles and Czechs in 2004.The economy is no longer booming for a start.Back then, "only three countries opened their borders. This time, all of the 25 EU states will lift Labour market restriction."
Also,Romania certainly(and to a lesser extent Bulgaria)have much closer cultural and linguistic ties with other EU countries than they do with the UK.

Over to you.

 

[MK Shrimper]

Well you don't need a crystal ball to see what way this thread will go :whistling:

 

[South Bank Hank]

Well you don't need a crystal ball to see what way this thread will go :whistling:

I actually thought this might lead to an interesting discussion. Barna, I might even have applauded you for it if you'd given us your own opinion to go with the usual link but you still stopped shy of giving it.

Should they be discouraged from coming?

You posted the link and asked the question. What's YOUR view?

 

[C'mon you Shrimpers]

I'd suggest they move to Barcelona and refuse to learn Catalan.

 

[superblue24]

Can't praise the government enough for this one.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I actually thought this might lead to an interesting discussion. Barna, I might even have applauded you for it if you'd given us your own opinion to go with the usual link but you still stopped shy of giving it.

Should they be discouraged from coming?

You posted the link and asked the question. What's YOUR view?

I thought my own opinion was fairly clear:

"Since Romania and Bulgaria become full member states of the EU at the end of the year it seems to me that there's little the UK Government can do about it."

I'm happy to stand by that.

 

[South Bank Hank]

I thought my own opinion was fairly clear:

"Since Romania and Bulgaria become full member states of the EU at the end of the year it seems to me that there's little the UK Government can do about it."

I'm happy to stand by that.

It's far from clear. I understand that you think there's 'little the UK government can do about it' but it doesn't answer your question "should [they] be discouraged from coming?"

So, your opinion: Do YOU think the UK government SHOULD or SHOULD NOT discourage Romanians and Bulgarians from coming?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I'd suggest they move to Barcelona and refuse to learn Catalan.

It so happens that a lot of Rumanians already have moved here.Spanish is easier for them to learn than Catalan too,apparently.

 

[OldBlueLady]

Good idea in theory but won't work as too many over here can already testify to the ease with which our housing and benefit system can be abused. We've got to tighten up on this and my personal view is that you should be a legal resident for 6 months minimum before you can apply for either.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

How does 'there's little the government can do about it" answer the question "should they be discouraged from coming?"

Since legally there's nothing the Government can do about restricting immigration from these two new accession countries the question of whether they should they be actively discouraged from coming hardly arises.
For fairly obvious reasons, I happen to firmly believe in the freedom of movement of labour between EU countries.It's all enshrined in EU law.
I also strongly suspect that that will be nothing like the flood of Romanians and Bulgarians coming into the UK that there was with the Poles and Czechs back in 2004.For the reasons I alluded to above.First, the UK economy is no longer experiencing a boom.Second,this time around, 25 EU countries will have to open their doors to the new immigrants as opposed to only the three which chose to do so in 2004(including the UK of course).

 

[South Bank Hank]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/ja...aria-ministers

"Romanian or Bulgarian?You won't like it here".
Will they though?And should they be discouraged from coming?

Over to you.

Since legally there's nothing the Government can do about restricting immigration from these two new accession countries the question of whether they should they be actively discouraged from coming hardly arises.
For fairly obvious reasons, I happen to firmly believe in the freedom of movement of labour between EU countries.It's all enshrined in EU law.
I also strongly suspect that that will be nothing like the flood of Romanians and Bulgarians coming into the UK, as there was with Poles and Czechs back in 2004.For the reasons I alluded to above.First, the UK economy is no longer experiencing a boom.Second,this time around, 25 EU countries will have to open their doors to the new immigrants as opposed to only the three which chose to do so in 2004(including the UK of course).

Of course the question arises - you yourself asked it and it's the whole point of the discussion.

As you say, the freedom of movement of labour between EU countries IS enshrined by law but how much the government seeks to attract Romanians and Bulgarians, leave them to their own devices, or actively seek to dissuade them is not.

So, here's the thing Barna as you posted the link and asked the question. Do YOU think the UK government SHOULD or SHOULD NOT discourage Romanians and Bulgarians from coming?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Good idea in theory but won't work as too many over here can already testify to the ease with which our housing and benefit system can be abused. We've got to tighten up on this and my personal view is that you should be a legal resident for 6 months minimum before you can apply for either.

While I'd have nothing against such a requirement (in theory) I'd imagine it would be contrary to existing EU legislation.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

So, here's the thing Barna as you posted the link and asked the question.

Do YOU think the UK government SHOULD or SHOULD NOT discourage Romanians and Bulgarians from coming?

Again, I think I've already answered the question(twice now):

"For fairly obvious reasons, I happen to firmly believe in the freedom of movement of labour between EU countries.It's also enshrined in EU law".

Economic migrants are not likely to be put off coming to Britain by being told the weather's crap.

I happen to think that the vast majority of Romanians and Bulgarian migrants would be more likely to choose to live in countries like Germany or Italy than the UK.

Clearly the UK Government will not be hanging out any welcome mat for them this time around and in existing economic conditions that is entirely understandable, unless we're talking about highly skilled labour.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

I think we need to consider the economic consequences carefully. There are examples of countries that have been flooded with workshy immigrants and who now find themselves in dire economic straits - eh, Barna?

 

[South Bank Hank]

Again, I think I've already answered the question(twice now):

"For fairly obvious reasons, I happen to firmly believe in the freedom of movement of labour between EU countries.It's also enshrined in EU law".

Economic migrants are not likely to be put off coming to Britain by being told the weather's crap.

I happen to think that the vast majority of Romanians and Bulgarian migrants would be more likely to choose to live in countries like Germany or Italy than the UK.

No, you've still not answered the question.

The freedom of movement of labour within the EU and how much of it would prefer to go to Germany or Italy has nothing to do with the question you raised, nor the article you linked to which was about whether the UK government should or should not discourage them from coming.

Clearly the UK Government will not be hanging out any welcome mat for them this time around and in existing economic conditions that is entirely understandable, unless we're talking about highly skilled labour.

Aha... and finally, you DO answer the question. And you accept that the position taken is largely the right one. Well, that could've saved a bunch of time, couldn't it?

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

I think we need to consider the economic consequences carefully. There are examples of countries that have been flooded with workshy immigrants and who now find themselves in dire economic straits - eh, Barna?

If you're talking about Spain,(which fairly obviously you are),the main problem is certainly not "workshy immigrants",who were attracted to Spain in the boom years before the recent crash,(many of whom have already returned to their different countries of origin)but the lack of work for those(including of course the indigenous population) who remain.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Aha... and finally, you DO answer the question. And you accept that the position taken is largely the right one. Well, that could've saved a bunch of time, couldn't it?

Interestingly,Keith Vaz is not shy about giving his own opinion.He calls the proposed campaign against Rumanian and Bulgarian immigration "bordering on the farcical."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/jan/28/campaign-deter-romanian-bulgarian-immigrants-farcical

 

[BrettieAngell]

Shouldn't let any of them in IMO, but what can we do about it?

 

[OldBlueLady]

While I'd have nothing against such a requirement (in theory) I'd imagine it would be contrary to existing EU legislation.

And that's precisely we need to come out of the EU, in my opinion. Why should faceless Europeans have the right to tell us we HAVE to accept these migrants?

 

[South Bank Hank]

Interestingly,Keith Vaz is not shy about giving his own opinion.He calls the proposed campaign against Rumanian and Bulgarian immigration "bordering on the farcical."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/jan/28/campaign-deter-romanian-bulgarian-immigrants-farcical

Interestingly is a matter of opinion too. And that's the point. If I want to read opinion on the Guardian website I'll do so. As ever Barna, if you're going to post the links, make sure they come with YOUR opinion.