Getting a degree

[Tangled up in Blue]

http://www.bbc.com/news/education-33204691

"Four in 10 students say university not good value - survey."

Personally,I think getting a degree was one of the best things I've ever done in my life.How was it for you?

 

[C'mon you Shrimpers]

OK I admit it, I've 2. The first was life changing. A new country (Scotland) met my wife, life long love affair with Scotland but definitely not their insane politics, and very important friendships made. Second one at Brunel was to do with the job. Didn't go to the graduation and no friendships made. Only interest for me was it was where part of a Clockwork Orange was filmed as it was famous for its brutal 1960s architecture if you could even call it architecture and in one of their alumni mags was a picture of Tony James who I did not know but was interested that in spite of a first class honours degree in maths and computing was in Sigue Sigue Sputnik and Generation X.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_James

 

[RHB]

I used to think that not having a degree was not a problem. Back in the 60s when I first started working, hard work and ability could get you where you wanted to be................until it didn't!! Whilst I was doing hands on jobs with only myself to manage it was not a problem. When I foolishly took on regular wearing of suits and far too much managerial responsibility then I collided with the glass ceiling big time. Track record, talent and ability only get you so far in life, having a degree very often takes you a bit further. Both my kids have degrees, all they need now are jobs to match their skillsets. Life is ironic at times.

 

[MK Shrimper]

I have one, and I wouldn't be in the job I am now without it, though that's not neccesarily a good thing!

 

[Bielzibubz]

I used to think that not having a degree was not a problem. Back in the 60s when I first started working, hard work and ability could get you where you wanted to be................until it didn't!! Whilst I was doing hands on jobs with only myself to manage it was not a problem. When I foolishly took on regular wearing of suits and far too much managerial responsibility then I collided with the glass ceiling big time. Track record, talent and ability only get you so far in life, having a degree very often takes you a bit further. Both my kids have degrees, all they need now are jobs to match their skillsets. Life is ironic at times.

I dare say a very good friend of mine that left school with no qualifications but has gone on to own and sell his own very profitable businesses would respectfully disagree with that.

Talent and ability can get you very far in life indeed. It's how you yourself promote that talent and ability that matters and counts in many circumstances.

 

[londonblue]

I thoroughly enjoyed my degree, and my whole career stems from it. My degree was in accountancy and it was that that got me my first job at an accountants. The work I did there got me my move to an investment bank. The bank I worked for also had a policy of only recruiting graduates which I personally think was very short-sighted. (That policy was reversed at some point whilst I was there.) The experience I gained there got me my move into telecoms. The experience I gained there also led to my current role. Even though I don’t practice accountancy, and never became an accountant my degree underpins everything I have done/achieved since.

However. It isn’t the b-all and end all of life. A good friend of mine did similar to me. He went to Bristol to study physics. He then went to work with one of the big accountancy firms in London and qualified as an accountant. He now works for himself buying failing businesses, turning them around and selling them on at a profit. When I say he buys businesses, we’re not talking small businesses either. In the past he’s bought national chains of home furnishings, and narrowly missed out on buying a Spanish airline!

Conversely this friend’s brother left school with nothing and went to work in IT for someone. He learned Oracle and became an IT Consultant specialising in Oracle databases. At some point along the way he did a degree for the hell of it, but he didn’t do it for work as he was already well respected in his field. He also earned so much money that he left his very well qualified brother in his wake. Especially when he quit work at about 35, bought a yacht and went sailing around the world. (He got as far as Spain IIRC before he got bored and came home.) It took him a couple of years to bother getting another job. He simply didn’t need the money.

So yeah, for me my degree was great and gave me a leg up when I started my career, but I don’t think it’s the only way to succeed, and isn’t necessarily the right way for everyone. However, what the students in the survey have missed is that they can’t know where life will take them and whether or not their degree with prove to be value for money in the long run.

 

[Sandbach Shrimper]

Depends what degree you get and where from. Thanks to New Labour I think far too many people go to 'uni' nowadays and come out with masses of debt that they'll never repay and a worthless degree in sociology/fashion journalism/(insert mickey mouse course) from some former polytechnic when they'd be better off just getting a job or doing an apprenticeship. I note from that article that it's mostly arts and humanities students who say that it's not worth it. If you don't think it's worth it then don't go, university is a serious time and money investment and you shouldn't just go cos you want to avoid the real world and doss around for three years. These days it's also about what work experience and skills you get while you're at university and during holidays because graduate jobs are so competitive. Often with graduate schemes it doesn't matter what you studied. I studied languages at university because it was a subject I enjoyed at school and there's a shortage of language speakers in the country so I thought it would be good from an employability point of view. I'm not using it in my current job but it's something I'll always have to fall back on. If I was 18 now though I doubt I'd bother going to university. As londonblue says, it's not the only way to a 'good' job.

 

[Firestorm]

I think it depends on your age. Those over 45 probably would say worthwhile , as it used to be a case of fitting the degree around the career one wanted to do. Everyone in my 6th form who went to Uni did so as a career choice.
Of those I know under that age , many took a subject they felt they could do well at and then worked out what to do with it afterwards
there are problems however, I failed my first year and had no idea what to do as I had been geared up for one particular route since I was 14. In those days the wasted qualifications were A levels unless you got a degree.

 

[RHB]

I dare say a very good friend of mine that left school with no qualifications but has gone on to own and sell his own very profitable businesses would respectfully disagree with that.

Talent and ability can get you very far in life indeed. It's how you yourself promote that talent and ability that matters and counts in many circumstances.

I'm sure there are many who may agree with your friend, and that's fine. I was only recollecting my experience in my job/career. Don't get me wrong, my talent and ability got me a long way but my education truncating after A levels did eventually count against me.

 

[manor15]

Currently studying for my degree. Have to say that I'm not surprised that so many think it's poor value for money. The majority of people now seem to be going to university because they feel they can't get a top job without a degree, as opposed to going because they want to study more or become a real expert in an area.

As for value for money, universities are run more and more as businesses, the student support services at some universities is truly shocking, some lecturers are unbelievably arrogant and get away with comments that people in other industries would never get away with. Far from the worst case I've heard of but just a personal example, submitted an assignment online but when it was returned the file had corrupted meaning that I had no idea of my mark, so I emailed the lecturer responsible asking him to send it again, he didn't reply, sent another email 2 weeks later, and finally a third one copying in my director of studies (head of course person basically) and he then replied that he had more important things to do. I've heard various cases of people being told to "get on with it" regarding mental health issues and family grievances. To pay £9,000 for tuition alone, and then all the other costs of living away from home etc, to receive such treatment really doesn't help make universities popular with students.

I have to say that of the people I know, the ones that love university love it because of the social side, as opposed to the university itself. I'm lucky in that I get the year abroad and my university has one of the best support services for that in the country so it has made up for some of the negatives of my first two years, but I think that if I had known I could go into a decent job straight from school then that would have been very tempting. The education system now builds up university as though it is almost expected that you go if you want to have any form of career, when that is clearly not the case.

 

[Pubey]

http://www.bbc.com/news/education-33204691

"Four in 10 students say university not good value - survey."

Personally,I think getting a degree was one of the best things I've ever done in my life.How was it for you?

Well there's a difference in thinking you're getting value for money while you study, and thinking your degree was worth it once you've graduated.

I'd suggest that most people will find their degree to have been worth it in the long run, even if doing a less 'academic' subjective in a lower ranked institution. Not just financially (graduates earn significantly more compared to non-graduates, on average) but also the experience of being at uni is generally positive.

The issue is that higher fees mean students have high expectations of their uni experience, along with a more general sense of entitlement.

School often doesn't provide the skills required for a degree (such as good independent and group learning and working skills, self-motivation and time management skills etc). So students are often quite 'naive' when they start and expect that there are going to be tutors 24/7 to hold their hands. When they struggle they can start moaning about how much they (their parents) are paying and they feel they're not getting a return on that.

Degrees are expensive because they're expensive to provide. Staff and facility costs are very high and when people try to be more efficient about how courses are delivered (online aspects, independent learning, not getting printed handouts etc) then students go crazy, even though they often save cash and are at least as good, if not better, than 'old-style' lectures.

The fees went up but in many cases the unis didn't see that cash, so they're dealing with heightened expectations along with challenging income issues (in many unis and departments). HEFCE funding has changed, fees haven't risen with inflation and research income from many providers has dried up. Also any investments in infrastructure from the increased fees have yet to be realised in many cases.

The uni I'm working at is only just starting a major infrastructure programme after years of chronic shortages of work space, and poor student facilities.

 

[OldBlueLady]

Hubby's nephew graduates from Cambridge FitzWilliam this weekend, there is absolutely no doubt at all that to get to where he wants to in the law profession, he has to have a first class degree. He's put in so much really hard work and dedication during his three years that I am keeping my fingers crossed he succeeds.

Was never really an option for me, very few of my friends went on to uni, I think of our form of 30 - and remember, this was WHSG - only a handful went to uni. For most of us, it was out to work as soon as possible. An interesting statistic that I remember from my time as a school governor, was that SS7 has a comparably very low percentage of higher level education.

What I remember from those graduates coming into banking when I was there, was that they were fast tracked through and the majority were useless! You'd teach them a job and then when they moved on to the next, spend weeks clearing up their mess! Distinctly lacking in common sense, every one of them!

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Hubby's nephew graduates from Cambridge FitzWilliam this weekend, there is absolutely no doubt at all that to get to where he wants to in the law profession, he has to have a first class degree. He's put in so much really hard work and dedication during his three years that I am keeping my fingers crossed he succeeds.

Was never really an option for me, very few of my friends went on to uni, I think of our form of 30 - and remember, this was WHSG - only a handful went to uni. For most of us, it was out to work as soon as possible. An interesting statistic that I remember from my time as a school governor, was that SS7 has a comparably very low percentage of higher level education.

What I remember from those graduates coming into banking when I was there, was that they were fast tracked through and the majority were useless! You'd teach them a job and then when they moved on to the next, spend weeks clearing up their mess! Distinctly lacking in common sense, every one of them!

What does he want to do?

I'm not sure I'd advise anyone to enter the legal profession now. There's not much in the way of long-term prospects, or job security these days - pretty much everyone I know has bailed from private practice. In City law the chances of partnership are remote; the chances of redundancy far higher. In criminal practices the butchering of legal aid means job security is nearly non-existent. High Street commercial practices are probably doing ok at the moment, but will increasingly come under attack from PE backed factories who will drive down costs using the oversupply of wannabe lawyers that have been produced by the now profit-driven CollegeUniversity of Law, so I don't see them as a great long-term option either for someone just entering the profession. Meanwhile barristers' monopoly is slowly being eaten away, leaving them with an uncertain future.

There are many more lucrative alternative careers out there for the very brightest and most ambitious to pursue.

 

[OldBlueLady]

What does he want to do?

I'm not sure I'd advise anyone to enter the legal profession now. There's not much in the way of long-term prospects, or job security these days - pretty much everyone I know has bailed from private practice. In City law the chances of partnership are remote; the chances of redundancy far higher. In criminal practices the butchering of legal aid means job security is nearly non-existent. High Street commercial practices are probably doing ok at the moment, but will increasingly come under attack from PE backed factories who will drive down costs using the oversupply of wannabe lawyers that have been produced by the now profit-driven CollegeUniversity of Law, so I don't see them as a great long-term option either for someone just entering the profession. Meanwhile barristers' monopoly is slowly being eaten away, leaving them with an uncertain future.

There are many more lucrative alternative careers out there for the very brightest and most ambitious to pursue.

His aim ultimately is to be a High Court Judge, YB. He's incredibly focussed and been wined and dined regularly through uni by some of the most prestigious law firms in Europe, so they clearly see something in him. For now, I think he wants to follow a career in political law.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Ha, I got taken out for drinks more in my 2 weeks on each vacation placement than in the years as an employee at the firm.

Good luck to him but he needs to go in with his eyes open. They'll see something in him, but they'll also see something in the rest of the intake. Each year maybe 100 new trainees are taken on in the bigger firms - all as highly qualified as each other - but at the other end only maybe 5 get made up to partner. And it's an up or out culture. It's one of the reasons why law firms take on so many female graduates, in the hope that they get married and have kids and give up by the age of 30 - not that they'll ever publicly admit this, but there's a greater chance of the natural wastage that such a business model requires when there's only limited room at the top and almost all the candidates have the academic qualifications to do it.

 

[OldBlueLady]

Ha, I got taken out for drinks more in my 2 weeks on each vacation placement than in the years as an employee at the firm.

Good luck to him but he needs to go in with his eyes open. They'll see something in him, but they'll also see something in the rest of the intake. Each year maybe 100 new trainees are taken on in the bigger firms - all as highly qualified as each other - but at the other end only maybe 5 get made up to partner. And it's an up or out culture. It's one of the reasons why law firms take on so many female graduates, in the hope that they get married and have kids and give up by the age of 30 - not that they'll ever publicly admit this, but there's a greater chance of the natural wastage that such a business model requires when there's only limited room at the top and almost all the candidates have the academic qualifications to do it.

Cheers Matt!

 

[banjo saviola]

I didn't go to uni when I was 18 as I lost my way in life a little and knew I'd just be ****ing my parents money up the wall. I'm 35 now and have been studying a Management Degree with the OU for the past 5 years. I definitely benefit from having real-life management experience in my job role...which the younger students can struggle with when it comes to case studies.


I've been really fortunate as I started the degree before tuition fees came in so my prices have been protected. The OU is good as you have some freedom in choosing the modules you study and this allowed me to learn about Law which I really enjoyed. The downside is that it takes twice as long to get the degree if you are doing it part time.


Overall, the study itself has been value for money. The entire degree would have cost less than £5k and my employers have paid for all of it. I've got a reasonably senior job but it's difficult to judge whether it's my working knowledge or my studies that have helped me in getting the promotions (probably the former rather than the latter). I complete the degree early 2016...it will be interesting if this provides any further opportunities for me....

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

His aim ultimately is to be a High Court Judge, YB. He's incredibly focussed and been wined and dined regularly through uni by some of the most prestigious law firms in Europe, so they clearly see something in him. For now, I think he wants to follow a career in political law.

A great mate of my brother's -not Rob Noxious but the other one-is exactly that down in Kent.Chelmsford Poly was good enough for him to get his Law degree from.He worked for many years as a legal-aid Barrister,which would appear to be an avenue cut off for young law graduates these days according to YB and others.Pity.

 

[londonblue]

A great mate of my brother's -not Rob Noxious but the other one-is exactly that down in Kent.Chelmsford Poly was good enough for him to get his Law degree from.He worked for many years as a legal-aid Barrister,which would appear to be an avenue cut off for young law graduates these days according to YB and others.Pity.

I have a friend who is a solicitor advocate and partner in a law firm. In the last 18 months or so he's laid off most of his team. He's also been campaigning on Facebook against the cuts to legal aid, and I personally agree with most of what he was saying. Interestingly he's also a staunch tory (or has been in the past). I'd love to know how he voted in May...

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

A great mate of my brother's -not Rob Noxious but the other one-is exactly that down in Kent.Chelmsford Poly was good enough for him to get his Law degree from.He worked for many years as a legal-aid Barrister,which would appear to be an avenue cut off for young law graduates these days according to YB and others.Pity.

H/T Pubey