England's batting

[Yorkshire Blue]

http://english.ohmynews.com/articleview/article_view.asp?article_class=14&no=384773&rel_no=1

Any thoughts?

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

Excellent article - Shah and Bopara definitely deserve more of a chance but I can't support the idea of Rob Key back in the test team. The possibility of Vaughn not just playing in the Ashes, but captaining the Ashes team would have sounded ridiculous to me before reading this, but now it seems like the best option we have.

 

[Pubey]

http://english.ohmynews.com/articleview/article_view.asp?article_class=14&no=384773&rel_no=1

Any thoughts?

I don't know much about cricket outside international tests.. but i can't really disagree with any of it. excellent article

 

[number11]

Good work YB. What is the site all about and how did you get involved?

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

I'd not put two + two together to realise that we'd been bowled out for two-digit scores twice in our last 25 innings. That is utterly pathetic.

We have to start getting other players into the mix, to increase competition. I agree with the assessment that if you've got a choice of one "batting all-rounder" slot, and that the men up for it are Collingwood or Bopara (with perhaps Luke Wright knocking on the door), then Ravi gets in ahead of Colly for me.

I also think enough is enough for Bell. I've always felt that Key deserves more of a chance than he's been given, and it would also allow Strauss to drop to 3 and permit KP to keep his preferred slot of 4th.

My line up would therefore be:

Cook
Key
Strauss (c)
KP
Shah
Bopara
Flintoff
Prior
Broad / Sidebottom
Panesar / Rashid
Harmison / Anderson

I've still no idea what the best bowling combo is, incidentally. Something's not right with Monty, and I'd like to see him go away and work with a top-notch finger-spinning coach - Saqlain, perhaps...? John Emburey? In the meantime, Adil Rashid would be a useful stand-in.

I think Broad is definitely a long-term bet for one of the seamers' berths, but is he ready yet? And then that leaves Jimmy or Harmy, depending on which one of them is in the right mood for it.

We still don't look like we're going to bowl sides out with that line-up though, do we - even if it looks a lot more stable from a run-getting point of view?

Final comment - a well-written piece, Matt - good work!

:)

Matt

 

[Pubey]

Good work YB. What is the site all about and how did you get involved?

just spotted the authors name. good work YB

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

just spotted the authors name. good work YB

Likewise! Excellent stuff YB.

 

[Exiled Shrimper]

http://english.ohmynews.com/articleview/article_view.asp?article_class=14&no=384773&rel_no=1

Any thoughts?

The author's a bit dodgy...;)

Nah, excellent article, thought-provoking indeed. Well done on digging out the post-Ashes stats - I think it puts things into a good context. My thoughts are pretty well documented on our batting line-up: I'd restore Robert Key an opener's berth with Cook dropping to three (where he impressed in the early part of his career, and averages 52.54 in his seven Tests as opposed to 40.87 outside), and potentially bring in Bopara for Collingwood as well. I don't think, with two all-rounders in Flintoff and Broad in the side, that we can go into a Test with only four bowlers, so my line-up for 2009 would look like this:

Strauss (c), Key, Cook, Pietersen, Bopara, Flintoff, Prior (wk), Broad, Swann, Sidebottom, Anderson.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Good work YB. What is the site all about and how did you get involved?

Someone who read one of my rants suggested I try my hand at it and recommended that site. Apparently they use to pay for submissions but that seems to have stopped, although a monthly prize is awarded to the article that generates the most "buzz".

I thought I'd give it a go and see if anything comes of it.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Excellent article - Shah and Bopara definitely deserve more of a chance but I can't support the idea of Rob Key back in the test team. The possibility of Vaughn not just playing in the Ashes, but captaining the Ashes team would have sounded ridiculous to me before reading this, but now it seems like the best option we have.

Why not Key?

As for Vaughan, the more I think about it, the more likely I think it is to happen. Strauss is struggling with the bat and the first test in India aside, he isn't looking test class. I'd have jettisoned him before India, but they then made him captain.

He hasn't united the team. I still expect England to fight back in the test series, but in the ODIs I think there is a real danger England implode. He's likely to be a passenger in the ODIs which will call into question his whole position as captain.

If Strauss goes, where do England turn? They can't go back to Capey, Cook's form and inexperience surely counts him out. IF Vaughan gets an early hundred and a couple of 50s England will see that it is Australia up next and going running back to him.

I'd not put two + two together to realise that we'd been bowled out for two-digit scores twice in our last 25 innings. That is utterly pathetic.

We have to start getting other players into the mix, to increase competition. I agree with the assessment that if you've got a choice of one "batting all-rounder" slot, and that the men up for it are Collingwood or Bopara (with perhaps Luke Wright knocking on the door), then Ravi gets in ahead of Colly for me.

I also think enough is enough for Bell. I've always felt that Key deserves more of a chance than he's been given, and it would also allow Strauss to drop to 3 and permit KP to keep his preferred slot of 4th.

My line up would therefore be:

Cook
Key
Strauss (c)
KP
Shah
Bopara
Flintoff
Prior
Broad / Sidebottom
Panesar / Rashid
Harmison / Anderson

I've still no idea what the best bowling combo is, incidentally. Something's not right with Monty, and I'd like to see him go away and work with a top-notch finger-spinning coach - Saqlain, perhaps...? John Emburey? In the meantime, Adil Rashid would be a useful stand-in.

I think Broad is definitely a long-term bet for one of the seamers' berths, but is he ready yet? And then that leaves Jimmy or Harmy, depending on which one of them is in the right mood for it.

We still don't look like we're going to bowl sides out with that line-up though, do we - even if it looks a lot more stable from a run-getting point of view?

Final comment - a well-written piece, Matt - good work!

:)

Matt

Thanks for the kind words from everyone, although I'm more interested in the feedback on the content.

I'm going to write a piece on bowling in the next couple of days. I still consider 5 bowlers the way forward. What I would do is switch Prior and Flintoff around in the batting order though.

It isn't just the two scores under 100. They were 67/8 in NZ, until Bell scored some late runs to take them up to a still feeble 110.

The really concerning statistic isn't those collapses, its the inability to score 400. Considering the paucity of opponent (WI and NZ) and some of the flat pitches (Colombo, Galle, Lords, Mohali, Chennai) that we've been bowled out for under 350 on, that is shocking.

Antigua isn't the flat track it once was, but even if England rack up the runs it can't be allowed to mask over the inadequacies displayed these last couple of years.

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

Why not Key?

Because he plays for Kent.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Because he plays for Kent.

Would not the best way of undermining them be to deprive them of their captain?

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

Would not the best way of undermining them be to deprive them of their captain?

True, but it would also give them excuses and something to whine about - and they love that. No wonder it's the Garden of England, it's covered in plenty of fertilizer. No offence to my brother Kent Shrimper intended.

 

[Napster]

True, but it would also give them excuses and something to whine about - and they love that. No wonder it's the Garden of England, it's covered in plenty of fertilizer. No offence to my brother Kent Shrimper intended.

I lived in Kent for 3 years and I agree. Yours, disgusted of Tunbridge Wells.

 

[number11]

Someone who read one of my rants suggested I try my hand at it and recommended that site. Apparently they use to pay for submissions but that seems to have stopped, although a monthly prize is awarded to the article that generates the most "buzz".

I thought I'd give it a go and see if anything comes of it.

Nice one. Ive added some comments on the site.

It is a real concern about the lack of batters coming through the county game. I certainly wouldnt mind Vaughan getting a recall, though if that happens it would be nice for him to play the tests against the Windies at home first.

Given the inconsistencies of the last few years this year has to all come down to the ashes and Vaughan will certainly have one up on them before a ball has been bowled. Not just for his captaincy, but his centuries against them (even the one in 05) have all been 'big' centuries. I beleive he could have an impact similar to Laxman for India....he has a fairly average...er...average and is quite for a number of series, but seems to raise his game for big scores against the Australians.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Nice one. Ive added some comments on the site.

It is a real concern about the lack of batters coming through the county game. I certainly wouldnt mind Vaughan getting a recall, though if that happens it would be nice for him to play the tests against the Windies at home first.

Given the inconsistencies of the last few years this year has to all come down to the ashes and Vaughan will certainly have one up on them before a ball has been bowled. Not just for his captaincy, but his centuries against them (even the one in 05) have all been 'big' centuries. I beleive he could have an impact similar to Laxman for India....he has a fairly average...er...average and is quite for a number of series, but seems to raise his game for big scores against the Australians.

Cheers, all comments welcome! Agree totally about Prior ahead of Flintoff.

I think the psychological factor with Vaughan is huge. I remember Botham right at the tail end of his career taking wickets and scoring runs against Australia even though he was a shadow of his former self. He had a psychological grip over them. Warne had one over England, and like Botham he also took wickets as much through who he was as what he was bowling.

Vaughan not only had that magical 2002/03 tour, but he was captain of England when England finally won back the Ashes. Add in the defeat of Australia in the Champions Trophy in England in between (Vaughan not only top-scored, but picked up 2 wickets and a run-out) and then Vaughan missing the disastrous 5-0 defeat and it gives not only something for Australia to think about, but also more reason for confidence for England and maybe someone else other than Pietersen to believe in.

If you look back at that Australian team who beat us in Brisbane in 2006, there's no Hayden, Langer, Martyn, Gilchrist, Warne, McGrath and maybe Clark and Lee.

That leaves just Ponting, Hussey, Clarke as definites who have beaten England and only Ponting who has beaten England in England. The psychological upperground is there for the taking.

There's a good article by Atherton suggesting Shah should come in for Cook and Bell open..

Like Mark Ramprakrash before him, if you move him to opener and it fails, I can't see any way back for him.

I'd favour Shah in for Bell if only because it makes it easier to make more changes (ie drop Collingwood) in the summer. The danger is if someone scores some runs like Strauss did in Napier and Chennai and Collingwood at the Oval and Mohali, that you can't then drop them.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Follow up article on the bowling

 

[number11]

Follow up article on the bowling

Cheers for that, especially the stats on Sidebottom who seems to be living off his early exploits against weak opposition. I just cant see what he has done to justify inclusion in the team after 6 months out with no cricket whatsoever (not even county). Anderson can move the ball both ways and is far quicker through the air. With Flintoff and Panesar both being able to be control bowlers (sadly not being able to take wickets as much as their talent merit) then I just dont see why we also need Sidebottom there. It makes it a very defensive 5 man attack.

 

[Clinton Baptiste]

Very good pieces YB, clearly you know your stuff.

There has to be changes no doubt but I dont hold any hope of there being. I mean there werent when we got hammered by the Aussies. But if the team doesnt change after a humiliation by a very ordinary West Indies team, then you have to question the men at the top. We need a full time coach asap, there is no leadership on or off the field in my opinion. The selectors cannot justfiy picking players who have had good averages in the past- Bell, Cook, COllingwood. Would Capello pick a striker who had scored 5 goals in his first 5 england games but not scored in his last 20?Strauss for me is not captain material, but who is in the current team? When the going gets tough and the pressure is on, we simply fold (which is true in a lot of sports in this country, must be something in our psyche).
For me Shah has to come in, it is criminal that hs has not been picked when we have pretty much done naff all since the 2005 ashes. Bopara for me is so outrageously talented, he has to be a shoe in, but higher up the order. The opening partnership has to change, once they go with 50 not even reached, it gives the opposition too much advantage. I would also recall Vaughan, as captain and opener.

Spot on about the bowling too, as much a problem as the batting. For me, Harmison and Anderson have been giving too many chances. How can you keep picking players in the hope they will spark into life. Both of them have maybe one good test out of 5. Hoggard I would recall, he is consistent and ok may not take many 5-fors but is a consistent wicket taker. There must be good bowlers in the county circuit. I know there are a lot of foreign cricketers in the game now, but surely there must be bowlers who can bowl more consistenty than Harmy and Anderson. It is also worrying how poor Monty and Sidebottom have done recently but I would persist for now with both.

My team for the Ashes (although wont happen!)

Strauss
Vaughan
KP
Shah
Bopara
Prior
Flintoff
Broad
Sidebottom
Hoggard
Monty

 

[Exiled Shrimper]

Follow up article on the bowling

More good work YB - I've left some feedback on the site and some other bits and pieces to ponder, too!