England v South Africa Test Series

[canveyshrimper]

1st Test against the Saffers at Lords on Thursday, which should be an interesting and competitive series which I hope England can shade 2-1.

The South Africans definitely have a potent pace attack in Steyn, Ntini & Nel, plus Morkel is getting some good reviews. Dale Steyn may possibly be the best pace bowler in the world at the moment, and Ntini & Nel have lots of experience in England. As ever they don't have a spinner and haven't had one worthy of the name since Hugh Tayfield in the 50's. And I am not sure that Harris will make the test side for this series. Mark Boucher remains a top keeper and seems to have been around for ever, and I believe he holds the world record for dismissals in Test Cricket, having displaced "Walker" Gilchrist.

Oddly it's their batting, although strong looking on paper which maybe their downfall. Smith and the incomparable Kallis are proven top class performers in England. But McKenzie, Amla, Prince & de Villiers are untried in this country. However I think de Villiers is a fine batsman and is wasted at number 6. I find it odd they have left out Herschelle Gibbs, but age & poor form may have caught up with him.

Smith as in all South African captains I've seen (apart from Ali Bacher) is one dimensional, and will always make sure his team don't lose before he considers winning as an option. All in all it should be a cracking series.

 

[Uncle Leo]

Quiz question - who was the last England captain to win a Lord's Test against the Yaapies?

Think I'll be backing the Yaapies to win 2-1, but most of all I'm looking forward to a good tight series, which should really put the capital 'T' in 'Test' for both teams.

 

[MrB]

All their bats are in prime form other than Prince and then you have the wisened head of Boucher coming in (who if we'd had for the last ten years would certainly have solved some issues!!). I really think we're going to struggle. Heard some stat that they've make 400 in there first innings about 3 times more than we have in the last few years.

Won't stop me enjoying the second day courtesy of Mr the Shrimp!

 

[Uncle Leo]

Heard some stat that they've make 400 in there first innings about 3 times more than we have in the last few years.

Won't stop me enjoying the second day courtesy of Mr the Shrimp!

Similarly, I think we've failed to reach 400 in the first innings for about a dozen Tests now - I'm sure someone on here will know exactly how many!

Enjoy Friday, hope the weather is good for you.

(Must. Stop. Going. On. Holiday. The. Week. Of. The. Lord's Test. :thump: )

 

[canveyshrimper]

Quiz question - who was the last England captain to win a Lord's Test against the Yaapies?

Think I'll be backing the Yaapies to win 2-1, but most of all I'm looking forward to a good tight series, which should really put the capital 'T' in 'Test' for both teams.

Guessing it will be Nasser Hussain in his last test, when he ran out Andrew Strauss going for his second hundred on degut.

 

[canveyshrimper]

All their bats are in prime form other than Prince and then you have the wisened head of Boucher coming in (who if we'd had for the last ten years would certainly have solved some issues!!). I really think we're going to struggle. Heard some stat that they've make 400 in there first innings about 3 times more than we have in the last few years.

Won't stop me enjoying the second day courtesy of Mr the Shrimp!

They may be, but my point is that Amla, McKenzie, Prince & de Villiers are largely unproved in England. And if the weather forecast is correct it's going to be pretty damp.

 

[Uncle Leo]

Guessing it will be Nasser Hussain in his last test, when he ran out Andrew Strauss going for his second hundred on debut.

That was New Zealand. Clue - SA have won all three Tests at Lord's since they were let back in 1992.

 

[canveyshrimper]

That was New Zealand. Clue - SA have won all three Tests at Lord's since they were let back in 1992.

Yes Smith got a big double hundred, and followed with another one in the next match.

In that case I think it will be Mike Smith in 1965.

 

[BILLERICAY BLUE]

They may be, but my point is that Amla, McKenzie, Prince & de Villiers are largely unproved in England. And if the weather forecast is correct it's going to be pretty damp.

Amla and Prince are just flat track / bad bowling bullies who are only in the side due to the colour of their skin. Boucher's not the bat he was 5 years ago, and Smith struggles against the swinging ball. So with the forecast damp weather, I can see us making serious inroads into their batting.

 

[Uncle Leo]

Just bitten the bullet and backed the Yaapies at 7.2 to win the series 2-1. Happy to proven wrong of course, unless it means them winning 4-0, 3-1, 3-0 etc etc!

Colin Cowdrey was the answer to that question by the way.

 

[Matt the Shrimp]

This is an intriguingly poised series, and I think (as ever) that the pivotal figure may well be Monty. If any of the pitches take any turn, then it's Monty who will be the match-winner.

Steyn is a class act, and Ntini will have even more guile (if not quite the express pace) that he had when he caused havoc here in '04. Nel ought not to be that much of a bother if our batsmen are on really top form - I've always had doubts as to whether he's genuine Test class. Let's not forget Kallis, too - just the sort of nagging medium pace that the likes of Ian Bell will leave his bat dangling outside off-stump for...

:thump:

I see the batting line-ups of being of roughly similar standard, provided that Colly can banish his early season wobbles. There will be plenty of runs in both top sixes; the question is simply going to be as to whether or not Sideshow and Jimmy can bowl with enough accuracy and variety (since they don't have the express pace of the SA line-up) to put Monty in a position where he can be a match-winner on Day 4/5 of any given Test.

Lord's will be too green for Monty, plus we always underperform (and tourists always over-perform) at the home of cricket.

We'll win at Headingley and Egbaston - two grounds at which we have a great record, and where the ball will nip around early doors (and turn late on) to give our subtler bowling attack the edge... provided our batters see off Ntini, who will be the Proteas' key player.

Oval will be, as usual, a very high-scoring draw.

2-1 to England. Looking forward v. much to Friday with MrB - provided the weather holds!

Matt

 

[SUFCEssex]

would love to see England win this series but fear SA may just shade it 2-1.

 

[Uncle Leo]

Just bitten the bullet and backed the Yaapies at 7.2 to win the series 2-1.

Ay thangyew...

 

[SUFCEssex]

Ay thangyew...

nice one. wonder if england would have won if the test had meant something.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Ay thangyew...

You would have got green if you hadn't shamelessly bumped the thread....


I went along today. Excellent value for £15.

It was a very measured start with barely a scoring shot in the opening 45 minutes. Strauss was fortunate to have a catch ruled out for a no-ball early on. Throughout Cook was the more fluent of the two and played some lovely shots as, having seen off the new ball, England started to get on top. He even danced down the pitch to South African slow Paul Harris and depositing him to the boundary. The pick of his shots was however his cut to bring up his half century.

By lunch England appeared to have more or less wrapped it up, with the main worry being the dark conditions and the appearance of a few drops of rain. However Cook got overconfident and the ball after hitting Ntini for 4, edged one low to slip. Probably his first false shot of the day. What followed was utterly predictable. Bell got bogged down and ended up somehow being bowled leg-stump for 4, having stepped too far over. Strauss then marked his final international appearance by edging Harris of all people to leg slip. All of a sudden England had lost 3 wickets for next to nothing and were making life difficult for themselves. With two new batsmen at the crease and the game suddenly back in the balance the crowd responded by doing a Mexican wave. Idiots.

Fortunately Pietersen looked assured, but was maybe trying to play the captain's innings rather than his normal game and was padding up to Harris rather than seeking to dominant. Instead it was Collingwood who was the aggressor and between them they took England to the verge of victory. It come as something of a surprise therefore when KP got out to Harris, but by then England were already in sight of the total and a Flintoff 6 saw them home in style.

My series ratings


Strauss 4 - A top-score of 58 isn't good enough. Goodbye.
Cook 5.5 - got to 60 in every game and averaged 47, but didn't get above 76. His catching has regressed.
Bell 6 - played one potential match winning, career breakthrough innings on a flat track, but then England didn't go on and win the game and then offered next to nothing for the rest of the series. His temperament must be yet again considered suspect having got out on 199, fluffed a run-out chance at Edgbaston when he lacked the calm head (or dead-eye) necessary and induced a mini-collapse today.
Vaughan 4.5 - gets an extra half mark for knowing when to call it a day/jump. Hopefully without the burden of captaincy his coverdrive can flourish. England need a partner for Cook in India and he plays spin masterfully.
Pietersen 9.5 - scored two centuries to put England in match-winning position twice, and he was close to making that 3 and 3. Not bad for a 4 test series.
Collingwood 8 - recovered from a shocker in the first test and being dropped to nearly get England back in the series at Edgbaston. Had the calmness to see England home today when others around him were losing their nerve (and their leg stump)
Ambrose 5 - not enough runs with the bat and whilst his keeping wasn't awful, it didn't make up for it. Was the turning point of the series his and Bell's fluffed run-out attempt of Greg Smith? Will be replaced by Prior as long as Prior doesn't drop any in the ODIs.
Flintoff 7 - not quite the panacea for all England's woes. His return led to two England defeats, but England are a better team with him in it.
Broad 6 - showed enough to suggest he is one England need to preserve with, but his bowling needs improvement. Averaged more with the bat than with the ball.
Sidebottom 5 - his England future is as a Headingley and Trent Bridge specialist.
Pattinson no mark - remember his name, he'll be a quiz question for years to come
Anderson 7 - the pick of the England attack
Harmison 8 - his introduction turned the England attack around. The question is now whether he is a horses for courses selection for pitches with pace and bounce, or whether he can once more be a mainstay of the England team. I'd close him down for the season and then send him to India to get two months bowling out there before the series.
Panesar 5 - was shocked to see him at the top of the averages. Its difficult to see how a finger spinner who can't bat and is a liability in the field can justify their place when they can't take a wicket in 60 overs on a 4th/5th day pitch at Lords and can't polish off a team who are 5 down on a wearing pitch at Edgbaston. He however chipped in with some cheap wickets at the Oval.

 

[SUFCEssex]

top day to be at the oval YB wish i'd gone.

 

[Uncle Leo]

Panesar 5 - was shocked to see him at the top of the averages.

He was top? I'm as surprised as you YB. :stunned:

Good move by the powers that be to make it £15 to get in today.

 

[Exiled Shrimper]

He was top? I'm as surprised as you YB. :stunned:

Good move by the powers that be to make it £15 to get in today.

In a short series, it's better to look at wickets taken than averages, and Anderson's 15 wickets at 33 were more valuable than Monty's 13 at 31, which incorporated a couple of very cheap ones in SA's 1st innings at The Oval. Don't forget, though, that Monty bowled really well in the 1st innings at Lord's, taking 4-74, which was one reason why his 2nd innings display was so disappointing there. It seems at the moment that Monty takes wickets when we don't expect him to, and doesn't take them when the pitch is turning or wearing strongly, which is something that he must rectify.

 

[Uncle Leo]

In a short series, it's better to look at wickets taken than averages

Thank you very much for that insight, I'm new to this cricket lark. ;)

By the way, you say short series, but it's only one Test shorter than the longest series we have nowadays, i.e. five Tests against Australia (although I understand that all future series with SA will return to being five Tests, which is good). Can't disagree with you that Anderson came out of the series with more credit than Panesar.

 

[BILLERICAY BLUE]

To be fair to Monty, he had Smith out twice in the 2nd innings at Edgbaston (caught off the glove, and LBW), but neither were given. If they had been, I'd have fancied him to finish off the tail without too much bother, and he'd have ended up with 15/16 wickets and a match-winning performance.