Capello v Beckham

[canveyshrimper]

It seems the press have their knives out for Capello over his apparent treatment of Beckham. While I am not a fan of Capello, but there's huge double standards here. I don't remember a similar furore when McClaren dropped Beckham after Germany 2006, in fact most of the press seemed to think that ditching the Beckham circus was a good thing.

As Capello has lost the press in the manner of the idiot Taylor & Hoddle IMO it's a matter of time before the FA are seeking a new manager, highlighting the folly of getting Capello to sign a new contract pre South Africa.

 

[Harold Bishop Killer]

I have no reservations with Capello dropping Becks. He has been a great servant to the country but it is time for a complete over haul and time to bring in youngsters in and start planning for the world cup in 2014 really. But I think it is the way he has gone about it, telling the press before actualy consulting Becks. I guess in relative terms it would be like your girlfriend telling your best mate you are dumped before actually telling you.

 

[EastStandBlue]

It's the typical English press reaction and, if it's worth anything to Capello, most of Europe are bemused by our OTT reaction to this.


The demolition job on Capello underway at the moment is quite extraordinary in the fact that it hugely consists of hyperbole and contradictions from one day to the next and, in some cases, in the very same edition of the paper. If you take the Hungary reaction as an example, most papers ran with some element that Capello isn't doing enough to rid England of the habitual underperformers whilst taking him to pieces for ditching the 35 year old Beckham who, according to physio reports from Milan, will struggle to compete at the highest level again (Achilles injuries are notoriously problematic).

Yes, it definitely should've been handled better but the intimation from Beckham's camp was not that they weren't informed, just that Capello hadn't spoken to Beckham personally. We go seemlessly from one extreme to the next... Hoddle? Oddball who alienated members of the squad. Venables? Too much of a nice guy. Sven? Relied too distinctly on favourites and was nowhere near emotionally attached enough to care. McClaren? Called them by their nicknames and turned in to a holiday camp. Capello was heralded as this great authoritarian figure who would whip our bunch of overpaid, egotistical prima donnas into shape, but now he's seemingly gone too far with that.

If we ditch Capello over something like this, I'll lose what little faith I have left in the FA's ability to lead the country's football interests. There is simply noone better who'd even consider leading an overrated squad who habitually underperform for any great period of time. Capello seems to know which players he wants to come through, and it's not his fault we have to rely on the inane Gareth Barry... Let him get on with the job.

 

[EastGreenNutter]

Becks has been a great servant but now its time for him to go, would love to see him in a coaching role with England as i think he has alot to offer, as for Capello he shouldn't be manager after there poor show in South Africa.
Even the other night it didn't seem right, I.M.O the players are not playing for him, he needs to go.

 

[EastStandBlue]

Becks has been a great servant but now its time for him to go, would love to see him in a coaching role with England as i think he has alot to offer, as for Capello he shouldn't be manager after there poor show in South Africa.
Even the other night it didn't seem right, I.M.O the players are not playing for him, he needs to go.

Why's that then? The only questionable trait of Capello was his reluctance to stray from a rigid 4-4-2 formation that was shown up at the World Cup, something that had worked wonders for us in qualification, and now that seems to have gone out the window with a 4-5-1 formation used against the Hungarians on Wednesday. Surely it's not Capello's fault that the heinously overrated Gareth Barry is the only defensive midfielder we have in Owen Hargreaves' absence, and that, after Wayne Rooney, our fit forward options were distinctly average?

 

[Rob Noxious]

Why's that then? The only questionable trait of Capello was his reluctance to stray from a rigid 4-4-2 formation that was shown up at the World Cup, something that had worked wonders for us in qualification, and now that seems to have gone out the window with a 4-5-1 formation used against the Hungarians on Wednesday. Surely it's not Capello's fault that the heinously overrated Gareth Barry is the only defensive midfielder we have in Owen Hargeave's absence, and that, after Wayne Rooney, our fit forward options were distinctly average?

Unforgiveable apostrophe abuse! ;)

Canvey is right about the circling vultures of 'The Fourth Estate,' who were probably peed off about Gerrard's salvage job on Wednesday. I think Capello has been hit badly by the South African misadventure and it really does seem as if he has 'lost' the players. However, I suspect the FA won't act unless we have a McLarenesque Euro exit - a pity when Martin O'Neill is available and he speaka da lingo, in more senses than one.

 

[number11]

Becks has been a great servant but now its time for him to go, would love to see him in a coaching role with England as i think he has alot to offer, as for Capello he shouldn't be manager after there poor show in South Africa.
Even the other night it didn't seem right, I.M.O the players are not playing for him, he needs to go.

I felt more let down by the players pathetic performances than by Capello. Should the players still be playing after their reprehensible performances?

 

[EastStandBlue]

Unforgiveable apostrophe abuse! ;)

Canvey is right about the circling vultures of 'The Fourth Estate,' who were probably peed off about Gerrard's salvage job on Wednesday. I think Capello has been hit badly by the South African misadventure and it really does seem as if he has 'lost' the players. However, I suspect the FA won't act unless we have a McLarenesque Euro exit - a pity when Martin O'Neill is available and he speaka da lingo, in more senses than one.

More typo than grammatical ;) But that's been corrected now.

And I simply don't see O'Neill as a viable candidate, I'm afraid... He hasn't exactly worked wonders with Villa despite having considerable investment available to him for every year prior to this one and he hasn't the considerable European/international experience that Capello has from the World Cup this year and previous Champions League campaigns.

I'd love to see who the tabloids think, in their right mind, would take the position given the character assassination that has happened in the wake of every one of our exits since 1990. Every manager with a decent reputation wouldn't risk it leading this sorry shower into battle, and the rest are nowhere near as qualified as Capello.

 

[Rob Noxious]

More typo than grammatical ;) But that's been corrected now.

And I simply don't see O'Neill as a viable candidate, I'm afraid... He hasn't exactly worked wonders with Villa despite having considerable investment available to him for every year prior to this one and he hasn't the considerable European/international experience that Capello has from the World Cup this year and previous Champions League campaigns.

I'd love to see who the tabloids think, in their right mind, would take the position given the character assassination that has happened in the wake of every one of our exits since 1990. Every manager with a decent reputation wouldn't risk it leading this sorry shower into battle, and the rest are nowhere near as qualified as Capello.

This reminds me of Julie Burchill & Tony Parsons' damnation of The Stranglers --- "they were the only 'punk' band with degrees, but were as thick as sh!t" (possible sic, going from memory here which sometimes doesn't serve me well). I don't think Klinnsman/Low were 'qualified' as such, but they had two good World Cups respectively despite not having fancied sides. I think Redknapp still fancies it as the last shot at the big time - O'Neill probably wouldn't countenance it anyway after the 2006 affair. I think you're being a bit harsh on him about his record at Villa --- they may not have broken into the top four, but he still turned it around there and gave chances to some promising English players.

 

[EastStandBlue]

This reminds me of Julie Burchill & Tony Parsons' damnation of The Stranglers --- "they were the only 'punk' band with degrees, but were as thick as sh!t" (possible sic, going from memory here which sometimes doesn't serve me well). I don't think Klinnsman/Low were 'qualified' as such, but they had two good World Cups respectively despite not having fancied sides. I think Redknapp still fancies it as the last shot at the big time - O'Neill probably wouldn't countenance it anyway after the 2006 affair. I think you're being a bit harsh on him about his record at Villa --- they may not have broken into the top four, but he still turned it around there and gave chances to some promising English players.

While completely alienating others, if you talk to the likes of Curtis Davies, Nigel Reo-Coker and Steve Sidwell. O'Neill's an excellent club manager, but International management is a completely different ball game, as Steve McClaren almost perfectly embodies.

Germany's 2006 performance I put largely down to the "home nation" effect whilst being stereotypically efficient, and Loew picked up vital knowledge and experience of the pressure cooker environment of international tournaments, making him the ideal candidate to lead Germany into the 2010 tournament.

Capello led England into the tournament using pretty much the same routines, starting eleven and tactics that saw us qualify for the tournament with ease, yet it completely unravelled under the pressure and weight of expectation. It has frequently been said that the player didn't appreciate the authoritarian stance when they were off the training field, and this is something Capello can now take into the Euro's in 2012 and, perhaps, beyond.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

It's the typical English press reaction and, if it's worth anything to Capello, most of Europe are bemused by our OTT reaction to this.


The demolition job on Capello underway at the moment is quite extraordinary in the fact that it hugely consists of hyperbole and contradictions from one day to the next and, in some cases, in the very same edition of the paper. If you take the Hungary reaction as an example, most papers ran with some element that Capello isn't doing enough to rid England of the habitual underperformers whilst taking him to pieces for ditching the 35 year old Beckham who, according to physio reports from Milan, will struggle to compete at the highest level again (Achilles injuries are notoriously problematic).

Yes, it definitely should've been handled better but the intimation from Beckham's camp was not that they weren't informed, just that Capello hadn't spoken to Beckham personally. We go seemlessly from one extreme to the next... Hoddle? Oddball who alienated members of the squad. Venables? Too much of a nice guy. Sven? Relied too distinctly on favourites and was nowhere near emotionally attached enough to care. McClaren? Called them by their nicknames and turned in to a holiday camp. Capello was heralded as this great authoritarian figure who would whip our bunch of overpaid, egotistical prima donnas into shape, but now he's seemingly gone too far with that.

If we ditch Capello over something like this, I'll lose what little faith I have left in the FA's ability to lead the country's football interests. There is simply noone better who'd even consider leading an overrated squad who habitually underperform for any great period of time. Capello seems to know which players he wants to come through, and it's not his fault we have to rely on the inane Gareth Barry... Let him get on with the job.

Barry has his qualities, but for moving forward I'm increasingly thinking we should be building the midfield around Michael Carrick.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

More typo than grammatical ;) But that's been corrected now.

And I simply don't see O'Neill as a viable candidate, I'm afraid... He hasn't exactly worked wonders with Villa despite having considerable investment available to him for every year prior to this one and he hasn't the considerable European/international experience that Capello has from the World Cup this year and previous Champions League campaigns.

I'd love to see who the tabloids think, in their right mind, would take the position given the character assassination that has happened in the wake of every one of our exits since 1990. Every manager with a decent reputation wouldn't risk it leading this sorry shower into battle, and the rest are nowhere near as qualified as Capello.

Therefore meaning you need to bribe them into accepting by offering hugely inflated salaries, which merely gives the tabloids (and the broadsheets, who behave as tabloids) something else to attack the England manager with.

 

[Rob Noxious]

Barry has his qualities, but for moving forward I'm increasingly thinking we should be building the midfield around Michael Carrick.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh - don't get me started, Matty! :punch:

 

[EastStandBlue]

Therefore meaning you need to bribe them into accepting by offering hugely inflated salaries, which merely gives the tabloids (and the broadsheets, who behave as tabloids) something else to attack the England manager with.

Precisely. Scolari actually wanted the position and was very interested to hear what the FA had to say... Until, of course, he was chased from his house by an onslaught of photographers and journalists alike wanting a piece of him. Although, given his problems with English players at Chelsea, we might've dodged a bullet there.

Given the nature of the job, whoever lands the role needs to have the added trait of being able to handle the intrusive English press which, unfortunately, narrows our chances even further.

Barry has his qualities, but for moving forward I'm increasingly thinking we should be building the midfield around Michael Carrick.

I'm open to Carrick playing a more regular role, he's probably the most continental midfielder we have at our disposal, but he'll need someone more physical/defensive alongside him I feel. If we're going to persist with the 4-5-1 system, a central trio of Huddlestone, Carrick and Gerrard in his more familiar role behind the striker wouldn't look out of place at all. Compliment that with Johnson on the left and Theo/Young on the right and it looks reasonable.

 

[Clinton Baptiste]

Capello shouldve gone after the world cup. The guy is a joke, cant speak english, shows no passion, never speaks to the players and doesnt play Gerrard in his best position in central midfield. The guy doesnt give 2 hoots about England or our future, hes is only in it for the money, one last pay check before retiring. He only picked the likes of Wilshere as a gesture to the FA and fans. Any manager who loses 4-1 to Germany should be banished forever. He doesnt go and watch the U-19's, only ever watches the top 4 teams, and his great tactic in the Germany game of swapping Defoe for Heskey sums him up. Clueless. Yes the players are to shoulder some of the blame but geez at least play these guys in the right position!
Took him a month to apologise for the monstrosity in South Africa, under pressure from the FA no doubt. He doesnt give a toss about the fans or anyone but himself. No dbout we will steamroll Wales and the other poor teams in this group and then fail again at the Euros in 2012. By which time his English will not have improved, the Wembley pitch will be just as bad, the FA will have changed chairman again and Wayne Rooney will be hailed as our saviour only to be absolute dogturd at a major tournament once again.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh - don't get me started, Matty! :punch:

Ha ha.

Seriously, if England are going to improve their ball retention and play a more passing game then Carrick is the logical step. He seems to polarise opinion as his detractors vastly underrate what he offers to a team, whilst his supporters (eg Zonal-marking) probably over-egg. Nevertheless, if England want to play a more modern/contintenal style of football then they need to look towards him.

I also think we need to forget Gerrard as a midfielder. If he plays, it should be as an attacker in the role ESB mentions.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

Capello shouldve gone after the world cup. The guy is a joke, cant speak english, shows no passion, never speaks to the players and doesnt play Gerrard in his best position in central midfield. The guy doesnt give 2 hoots about England or our future, hes is only in it for the money, one last pay check before retiring. He only picked the likes of Wilshere as a gesture to the FA and fans. Any manager who loses 4-1 to Germany should be banished forever. He doesnt go and watch the U-19's, only ever watches the top 4 teams, and his great tactic in the Germany game of swapping Defoe for Heskey sums him up. Clueless. Yes the players are to shoulder some of the blame but geez at least play these guys in the right position!
Took him a month to apologise for the monstrosity in South Africa, under pressure from the FA no doubt. He doesnt give a toss about the fans or anyone but himself. No dbout we will steamroll Wales and the other poor teams in this group and then fail again at the Euros in 2012. By which time his English will not have improved, the Wembley pitch will be just as bad, the FA will have changed chairman again and Wayne Rooney will be hailed as our saviour only to be absolute dogturd at a major tournament once again.

Isn't under19 the level the likes of Scott Malone and Neil Jenkins played?

What would he learn watching them?

The important levels are u21s and u18s. Any 19yo who is any good will be playing u21s anyway.

 

[Rob Noxious]

Ha ha.

Seriously, if England are going to improve their ball retention and play a more passing game then Carrick is the logical step. He seems to polarise opinion as his detractors vastly underrate what he offers to a team, whilst his supporters (eg Zonal-marking) probably over-egg. Nevertheless, if England want to play a more modern/contintenal style of football then they need to look towards him.

I also think we need to forget Gerrard as a midfielder. If he plays, it should be as an attacker in the role ESB mentions.

Hmm --- I seem to recall having a discussion with ESB about Carrick's qualities in the wake of the European Cup Final last year. My view is that he's not a big-game player and he only tends to play well when the team is playing well. I think for all the talk about his ball-retention (no jokes please) and passing ability, he is actually quite wasteful at times. But I think that you & ESB are spot on about Gerrard - he looked like he'd been 'released' in the second-half on Wednesday, especially (and perversely) when Rooney went off.

 

[EastStandBlue]

Hmm --- I seem to recall having a discussion with ESB about Carrick's qualities in the wake of the European Cup Final last year. My view is that he's not a big-game player and he only tends to play well when the team is playing well. I think for all the talk about his ball-retention (no jokes please) and passing ability, he is actually quite wasteful at times. But I think that you & ESB are spot on about Gerrard - he looked like he'd been 'released' in the second-half on Wednesday, especially (and perversely) when Rooney went off.

As perverse as it sounds as he does cover an awful lot of ground, I don't think Gerrard is industrious enough to play as that second central midfielder in this 4-5-1 system. He's rarely on the edge of the box throwing himself in front of shots and, in that position, he's incredibly prone to attempt these hollywood passes that hardly ever come off.

We need to stop trying to pigeon hole players into roles they don't suit, stop trying to accomodate our best individuals and focus more on identifying a system that works and players that can play in that system and do in fact play that position for their clubs. Joachim Loew went on record saying that this is exactly how he and his assistant achieved so much at this World Cup. Klose and Podolski had terrible domestic seasons, yet flourished for Germany because they know precisely how the system works.

Carrick does have this tendency to go missing for spells in a game, but this is the exact position he plays for United and he plays it well most of the time. He's capable of sitting back, recieving the ball and simply spraying it wide or to one of his other midfielders. Rodwell should be able to offer competition for this role too, although I'd prefer him to leave for United (or, ideally, Spain) to further his development.

I'd liken Carrick to Ian Bell... It's clear they both have the talent to do well for their country, but they both have this tendency to be phased by the situation.

 

[Yorkshire Blue]

As perverse as it sounds as he does cover an awful lot of ground, I don't think Gerrard is industrious enough to play as that second central midfielder in this 4-5-1 system. He's rarely on the edge of the box throwing himself in front of shots and, in that position, he's incredibly prone to attempt these hollywood passes that hardly ever come off.

We need to stop trying to pigeon hole players into roles they don't suit, stop trying to accomodate our best individuals and focus more on identifying a system that works and players that can play in that system and do in fact play that position for their clubs. Joachim Loew went on record saying that this is exactly how he and his assistant achieved so much at this World Cup. Klose and Podolski had terrible domestic seasons, yet flourished for Germany because they know precisely how the system works.

Carrick does have this tendency to go missing for spells in a game, but this is the exact position he plays for United and he plays it well most of the time. He's capable of sitting back, recieving the ball and simply spraying it wide or to one of his other midfielders. Rodwell should be able to offer competition for this role too, although I'd prefer him to leave for United (or, ideally, Spain) to further his development.

I'd liken Carrick to Ian Bell... It's clear they both have the talent to do well for their country, but they both have this tendency to be phased by the situation.

Ouch.

Is it not the nature of the role that players performing it are more noticed by their absence than by their performances?