Brown Out / Replacement / Moan about Manager Super-Thread

[southend4ever]

Strange how when we lost to Walsall, Brighton and Swindon at the start of last season nobody was saying "but we won seven in a row last April"

The same posters who demand to see young non league talent given a chance, Jump straight on the managers back for playing our very own Ted Smith and Jack Bridge in meaningless end of season games.

All managers know this is what happens and that is why we don't see young players given their chance at any level of the professional game.

We even had some absolute clowns, whining about PB bringing on some of the under 21's against Newcastle

Hindsight is one helluva power to possess. It would seem lots of shrimpers possess it!

 

[Barry.C]

Its been two games. Yes of course we should expect that they should be better than losing every game, but that's making a judgement based on a tiny sample of evidence.

Whilst the form at the end of last season was awful I didnt actually think the squad we had was particularly strong last season.
A mid table finish overall was about right I thought. We should be better than the run of results we had in the slump, but we over performed early on.

Whilst the performanced towards the end has to be taken into consideration it also has to be recognised that this is not the same team that finished the season and do need some time to bed in before being judged. They wont get as long as a normal season though because of last season.

Are the current squad better than before? Not sure that can be backed up after two games against the same team when we played a pretty different side both times. I think we have improved with Cox and Demetriou but neither has shown much yet although its early days. Bentley and Payne havent been improved on and so far centre half positions havent improved. Even Worrall who wasnt even a first starter I cant see has been improved on out wide.

Time will tell if the squad is underperforming or not, if we are sitting here after another 3 games without a win then I think Phill will be gone though.



A tall commanding centre half is definitely what we all want and need, but worth bearing in mind so far only 1 of the 6 goals we conceded was over knee height.

I agree with most of that and your usual fair judgement apart from this bit highlighted. Having attended both the first 2 games I thought Gillingham were more " together "as a unit than us . They had brought in/signed 9 new players to settle in and had a pre season considerably disrupted by games cancelled and injuries. I also thought because of this we would kill them in the last 20 minutes, but they looked fitter despite the above?

 

[Blues4LifeDan]

Most of those defeats were dead rubbers. We were always outsiders for the Play-Offs and any hopes we did have evaporated pretty early on.

PB's current squad has played one league game. One time, over 90 minutes 11 other blokes put a ball into a net more time than our 11 blokes did. That happens. I'm sure that there are plenty of managers out there who could do better jobs. There are also plenty of managers out there who couldn't. Either way, I like supporting a Club who show loyalty in its managers, especially those who have got the Club in a far stronger position than it was in when he found it.

That expression really doesn't sit well with me, 'dead rubbers'. I don't pay for a season ticket and just except that for a quarter of a season it's ok for my team to underperform because they are 'dead rubber' games. Because we apparently have nothing to play for. I expect my team to give their all for the whole entire season, like we fans do by attending all the games throughout the season. It's such a pathetic excuse when a manger says, 'oh we were safe or had nothing to play for. That's why we didn't do well second half of the season'. How an earth can that be deemed ok? To just give up when fans have paid hard earned money to see you. How would the players like it, if come March time us fans collectively say, 'oh well, nothing to play for, let's just not turn up'. Good luck club playing in an empty stadium!
I'm not disagreeing with you Beefy, the players probably did do that, deem the games meaningless. I'm just stating that it's unacceptable to do so and us fans shouldn't tolerate it.

 

[rigsby]

That expression really doesn't sit well with me, 'dead rubbers'. I don't pay for a season ticket and just except that for a quarter of a season it's ok for my team to underperform because they are 'dead rubber' games. Because we apparently have nothing to play for. I expect my team to give their all for the whole entire season, like we fans do by attending all the games throughout the season. It's such a pathetic excuse when a manger says, 'oh we were safe or had nothing to play for. That's why we didn't do well second half of the season'. How an earth can that be deemed ok? To just give up when fans have paid hard earned money to see you. How would the players like it, if come March time us fans collectively say, 'oh well, nothing to play for, let's just not turn up'. Good luck club playing in an empty stadium!
I'm not disagreeing with you Beefy, the players probably did do that, deem the games meaningless. I'm just stating that it's unacceptable to do so and us fans shouldn't tolerate it.

Your are right in what you say. Some have looked at the results and applied a well used cliché 'lost the dressing room' or 'shackled.' But the players certainly put in in against Oldham and Bradford. Fans I spoke to from both clubs both said they were lucky to get all 3 points.

Bury away we did create plenty of good chances only to lose to a harsh assistant's decision. Again they players weren't slacking and I thought it was good decision to play Smith and Bridge. A few things had to be learnt for next season. One of those being that Ted was going to be under to much pressure if he had to step into Bentley's shoes. Because as you know some of our so called fans couldn't wait to slag young Ted.

 

[Jam_Man]

That expression really doesn't sit well with me, 'dead rubbers'. I don't pay for a season ticket and just except that for a quarter of a season it's ok for my team to underperform because they are 'dead rubber' games. Because we apparently have nothing to play for. I expect my team to give their all for the whole entire season, like we fans do by attending all the games throughout the season. It's such a pathetic excuse when a manger says, 'oh we were safe or had nothing to play for. That's why we didn't do well second half of the season'. How an earth can that be deemed ok? To just give up when fans have paid hard earned money to see you. How would the players like it, if come March time us fans collectively say, 'oh well, nothing to play for, let's just not turn up'. Good luck club playing in an empty stadium!
I'm not disagreeing with you Beefy, the players probably did do that, deem the games meaningless. I'm just stating that it's unacceptable to do so and us fans shouldn't tolerate it.

Its not just about "giving up" we also dropped our two best players for the last few games who weren't signing contracts to give others like Ted Smith and Bridge a chance for some experience, which is exactly what many fans were saying he should do.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Its not just about "giving up" we also dropped our two best players for the last few games who weren't signing contracts to give others like Ted Smith and Bridge a chance for some experience, which is exactly what many fans were saying he should do.

Agreed. However I don't think that decision, given that we were not in contention for the playoffs any longer, is in question.

What is in question are the general team setup, tactics and inability to rectify longstanding issues such as defending set pieces. Phil has been backed pretty well by the club in the transfer market compared to previous managers. Yet he messed up one opportunity for promotion from league two, almost a second the following year, and the team has basically gone backwards in this calendar year. All the while Phil has been bigging himself up for any other job he can. Is it any wonder that some are tiring of him?

Yes we've only had two games this year. That cannot be viewed in isolation though without realising that those two games have only served to underline his failure to address longstanding issues in the team.

 

[Mick]

Golden rule of rigsby .... defend Brown under all circumstances. Are you being paid to provide such unswerving (and undeserved) support or do you actually believe what you write ?

Golden rule of Mick....Never like anyone else's opinion other than his own.

I like plenty of other people's opinions, especially when they concur with mine and, in the best Voltaire tradition, I would defend absolutely their right to have them even if they don't.

You didn't answer my question.

 

[Kevin Hogg]

Two facts:

We are in a higher league than when Phil Brown took over in 2013.

We have improved our position every single season Phil Brown has been in charge at Southend United.

2012/13 - PB took over in March and we finished 11th in League 2
2013/14 - 5th in League 2 (up 6 places) - Beaten in Play-offs.
2014/15 - 5th in League 2 - Promoted at Wembley on arguably the greatest day in the club's 110 year history (up an entire League).
2015/16 - 15th in League 1 ( up 13 positions on previous season finish).

Please argue against the FACTS. Phil Brown has been a success and we have improved our league standing EVERY SINGLE season.

Facts are facts - ladies & gentleman.

 

[Jam_Man]

Agreed. However I don't think that decision, given that we were not in contention for the playoffs any longer, is in question.

What is in question are the general team setup, tactics and inability to rectify longstanding issues such as defending set pieces. Phil has been backed pretty well by the club in the transfer market compared to previous managers. Yet he messed up one opportunity for promotion from league two, almost a second the following year, and the team has basically gone backwards in this calendar year. All the while Phil has been bigging himself up for any other job he can. Is it any wonder that some are tiring of him?

Yes we've only had two games this year. That cannot be viewed in isolation though without realising that those two games have only served to underline his failure to address longstanding issues in the team.

I get the frustration and criticism of Brown, cant argue with people criticising with results over the last 6 months and dont defend him at all.

What gets me is not the people that criticise but that also refuse to give him credit for what he has achieved. If he was lucky to get us promoted with a record number of points then what was Tilson who did it with 10 points less? With a bit of a balanced view of it Id actually say if we hadnt been promoted with that amount of points we would havce been unlucky, to go up after finishing with 84 points 'wasnt getting away with it'.

Criticise him for what he has done wrong but lets have a little perspective and give him credit for he did, putting it down to luck is just bashing him for the sake of it.

We lose a few more and he will be sacked and rightly so, Ill still have respect for him for getting us out of that division.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

I get the frustration and criticism of Brown, cant argue with people criticising with results over the last 6 months and dont defend him at all.

What gets me is not the people that criticise but that also refuse to give him credit for what he has achieved. If he was lucky to get us promoted with a record number of points then what was Tilson who did it with 10 points less? With a bit of a balanced view of it Id actually say if we hadnt been promoted with that amount of points we would havce been unlucky, to go up after finishing with 84 points 'wasnt getting away with it'.

Criticise him for what he has done wrong but lets have a little perspective and give him credit for he did, putting it down to luck is just bashing him for the sake of it.

We lose a few more and he will be sacked and rightly so, Ill still have respect for him for getting us out of that division.

That's fair, I don't disagree. I never claimed to have written a full thesis on Phil's record - positive points and negative. I have certainly not criticised him once previously, but what I have done is list the reasons that I feel things are not currently right and why my enthusiasm for his stewardship has waned. If he can turn it round from here, properly, all power to his elbow. Nobody will be happier than me and I'll be effusive in my praise. It's just that as things stand I'm feeling pig sick and my perception of his managerial performance in 2016 especially is a big part of the reason.

 

[manor15]

Two facts:

We are in a higher league than when Phil Brown took over in 2013.

We have improved our position every single season Phil Brown has been in charge at Southend United.

2012/13 - PB took over in March and we finished 11th in League 2
2013/14 - 5th in League 2 (up 6 places) - Beaten in Play-offs.
2014/15 - 5th in League 2 - Promoted at Wembley on arguably the greatest day in the club's 110 year history (up an entire League).
2015/16 - 15th in League 1 ( up 13 positions on previous season finish).

Please argue against the FACTS. Phil Brown has been a success and we have improved our league standing EVERY SINGLE season.

Facts are facts - ladies & gentleman.

Very good facts.

Worth remembering though that he is also the manager to see the club's longest ever run without a win and the club's longest ever run of consecutive defeats on two different occasions with only three full seasons under his belt.

 

[rigsby]

I like plenty of other people's opinions, especially when they concur with mine and, in the best Voltaire tradition, I would defend absolutely their right to have them even if they don't.

You didn't answer my question.

Couldn't have described you better myself.

So you don't like 'unswerving' support and in your opinion its 'undeserved'. Sorry to disappoint you but that's the sort of person I am. Not just to SUFC but with family and friends. You should have tried some of those qualities in life. Still I suppose there's a reason your a referee.

 

[rlb999]

If Ron pulled the trigger every time someone on here demanded it, most managers wouldn't see out 2 games.

 

[Medway Blue]

Strange how when we lost to Walsall, Brighton and Swindon at the start of last season nobody was saying "but we won seven in a row last April"

Different divisions. Ridiculous thing to say.

 

[Jam_Man]

Different divisions. Ridiculous thing to say.

Why ?

When people are bashing Phil they are happy to go back to last seasons results. Bearing in mind the amount of players that have changed thats just as ridiculous.

Whilst team performance of last season does have to be considered when measuring Browns performance no one can use games played 3 months ago with a different team as current form of the current team, Nearly half of them werent even here.

 

[AndyT]

Agreed and there were other circumstances regarding the side at the back end of last season.

As well as the Bentley and Payne issues, we had John White who had personal problems at the time, Ben Coker who wasn't 100% fit, David Worrall wanting a move away, Injuries to several key players. An undecided Tyrone Barnett. Various loan players who weren't likely to be retained : Kamara, McQueen, Loza and so on. Ryan Leonard coming back to full fitness after a bad injury. As well as PB's link with Bolton. All of these things, plus some away matches where we had less to play for than normal and I wouldn't expect us to win too many of those games.

Yet, I didn't see any less desire from those players on the pitch at the home games I saw. Sometimes you can go on a bad run, just as easily as a good run. Look at Barnsley to see the two extremes in one season.

This season is a new venture. Players brought in with longer term plans now. Sure, we aren't at the best eleven stage just yet, but we will get there soon.

 

[Medway Blue]

Why ?

When people are bashing Phil they are happy to go back to last seasons results. Bearing in mind the amount of players that have changed thats just as ridiculous.

Whilst team performance of last season does have to be considered when measuring Browns performance no one can use games played 3 months ago with a different team as current form of the current team, Nearly half of them werent even here.

Anybody saying "but we won seven in a row last April" after our poor start to last season is clearly a fool because they were different divisions. Therefore a poorer standard of team. I thought that much was obvious. Anyone saying it now, even if it might be a bit early, at least has the sense to be comparing our form in the division and against same-level sides as last season.

People can use games played 3 months ago. Doesn't matter who the players are. When it's exactly the same glaring problems slapping you in the face after a pre-season where they should have been fixed, then there is a problem and more than enough reason to start using last season's tail-end form with the exactly the same issues as part of the analysis. In fact some may see it as more alarming that the same glaring issues with the way we play are there when a portion of the team is different!

 

[Jam_Man]

What Ive seen so far is a glaring problem of not being able to handle one player- JET.

 

[rigsby]

Anybody saying "but we won seven in a row last April" after our poor start to last season is clearly a fool because they were different divisions. Therefore a poorer standard of team. I thought that much was obvious. Anyone saying it now, even if it might be a bit early, at least has the sense to be comparing our form in the division and against same-level sides as last season.

People can use games played 3 months ago. Doesn't matter who the players are. When it's exactly the same glaring problems slapping you in the face after a pre-season where they should have been fixed, then there is a problem and more than enough reason to start using last season's tail-end form with the exactly the same issues as part of the analysis. In fact some may see it as more alarming that the same glaring issues with the way we play are there when a portion of the team is different!

James, because people tell the truth it does not make them a fool. You also accused another poster of being a relative of PB for not agreeing with your blind whinging.

 

[GIBBO]

I like to see the cowley brothers already working wonders at Lincoln