Benefits system shakeup

[Mad Cyril]

The government have revealed plans to force unemployed people to do community work:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7516551.stm

Any thoughts?

I quite enjoyed the following broad brush judgemental quote:

I for one am sick of funding their drinking, smoking and watching Sky TV"

 

[Desert Shrimper]

Steveo - time to blame the immigrants again dude

 

[canveyshrimper]

Interesting point in that article.

"This shake-up will apply to all 4.5 million people on out-of-work benefits, but is expected to impact most on those on Jobseekers Allowance."

I am sure the Government have assured us that the unemployment rate is running at around 1.5 million.

I would say this is rhetoric from the Government, if they had tackled this 10 years ago when Blair wanted Frank Field to "think the unthinkable" on benefits, and promptly bottled out when Field put his plans forward. Blair promptly sacked Field, despite the fact the Government had a massive majority and would have easily bought these plans in.

Green papers are one thing, however I doubt if a Labour Government will ever tackle this problem.

 

[Firestorm]

I think the 4.5 million includes those on disability benefits etc which "prevent2 them from working. the 1.5 is those who "Can" work...
All for this, I am a great fan of the welfare state and Social responsibility, however there are always thouse who will exploit any system.
Better health checks for those who say they can't work because of injury / Illness, The proverbial bad back is the prime example here. If its genuine people wouldn't object to a 2nd opinion.
Also clamp down on those working and claiming benefits. Cash in hand work fuels illegal immigration, benefit fraud , tax evasion and a host of other crimes. a number of which are seen as "victimless" as it is the state who is being ripped off, its not it means you and I are being ripped off. Cut this out at source by nailing the employers (who are avoiding NI contributions, minimum wage requirements etc) and you may well find a drop in those claiming benefits as either the wages go through legitimate channels and therefore benefit is stopped or the cash in hand cowboy folds and the work is taken on by legit firms who recruit more staff.
There will be an increase in NI and tax revenue as well

 

[MK Shrimper]

** Picks up socialist worker **

While I've no time for those who sit on their @rses and can't be bothered, this seems like Labour picking an easy target - the poor and ignoring the rich who can employ accountants to ferret away their excessive wealth in offshore accounts. Maggie T must be SOOOO proud of Gordon Brown, he's a chip off the old Tory block.

 

[loz]

On balance, I'm in favour of it. I think there's a slight concern in treating all unemployed people the same- if you worked your arse off for 15 years then got made redundant, that's a bit different to someone who's avoided work as much as possible- same issue for the genuinely disabled. If the resources are in place to sort out people with genuine issues from those who are in it to make as much as they can out of the system, then i'm all for giving the latter a seriously hard time.

 

[Firestorm]

** Picks up socialist worker **

While I've no time for those who sit on their @rses and can't be bothered, this seems like Labour picking an easy target - the poor and ignoring the rich who can employ accountants to ferret away their excessive wealth in offshore accounts. Maggie T must be SOOOO proud of Gordon Brown, he's a chip off the old Tory block.

I would hope its more about picking on those who are exploiting the mechanisms to help the poor as opposed to picking on the poor. I have no problems with people earning good money as long as they put back into society (via taxation etc) its those which take from society with no due cause other than they want something for nothing which get my goat.

 

[OldBlueLady]

On balance, I'm in favour of it. I think there's a slight concern in treating all unemployed people the same- if you worked your arse off for 15 years then got made redundant, that's a bit different to someone who's avoided work as much as possible- same issue for the genuinely disabled. If the resources are in place to sort out people with genuine issues from those who are in it to make as much as they can out of the system, then i'm all for giving the latter a seriously hard time.

Agree Loz, it's the "professional" claimants that have completely ruined the welfare and benefits systems, and it's making these the main target that should be the priority. People should not be able to be "better off" on benefits than they would be at work.

 

[DTS]

Cant be arsed to hunt down the thread but I suggested this about a year ago and was shot down in flames by Naps, MK and Firestorm from memory.....

I work in a local city centre at the moment and the amount of seemingly perfectly healthy looking adults I see day after day in the centre alarms me.

Why are these *******s not at work......???

 

[Napster]

Cant be arsed to hunt down the thread but I suggested this about a year ago and was shot down in flames by Naps, MK and Firestorm from memory.....

I work in a local city centre at the moment and the amount of seemingly perfectly healthy looking adults I see day after day in the centre alarms me.

Why are these *******s not at work......???

Are you sure I shot you down in flames? :unsure:

 

[DTS]

Are you sure I shot you down in flames? :unsure:

Fairly sure as you normally do but happy to be corrected.

Here you go....

http://www.shrimperzone.com/vb/showthread.php?t=31813

 

[Napster]

Fairly sure as you normally do but happy to be corrected.

Here you go....

http://www.shrimperzone.com/vb/showthread.php?t=31813

Yeah, that was really full-blooded of me. All i did was point out the financial aspect.

:p

 

[DTS]

Yeah, that was really full-blooded of me. All i did was point out the financial aspect.

:p

Fair play altough the goverment clearly seem to think the scheme is workable.

 

[Firestorm]

I have just read it through Dave and to be honest your post this one are two different aspects of the same topic.
This is about preventing abuse of the system by testing the claimants, your post ( which I disagreed with) was forcing all claimants to work for the council.

 

[DTS]

I have just read it through Dave and to be honest your post this one are two different aspects of the same topic.
This is about preventing abuse of the system by testing the claimants, your post ( which I disagreed with) was forcing all claimants to work for the council.

Hang on arent all claimants under the goverments scheme going to have to work if they cant be signed off by an independent GP anyway?

 

[Firestorm]

Hang on arent all claimants under the goverments scheme going to have to work if they cant be signed off by an independent GP anyway?

I read it that those claiming disability benefits would have to undergo an independant examination after which they may get refused benefit (which i suppose it would mean they would have to work if they wanted money or at least go through the jobseekers route) Its not the same as making viable claimants work for their benefit

 

[ldnfatso]

After retiring, a bloke went to the Social Security office to apply for Social Security. The woman behind the counter asked him for his driver's license to verify his age. He looked in his pockets and realized he had left his wallet at home. He told the woman that he was very sorry, but he would have to go home and come back later.

The woman said, 'Unbutton your shirt'.

So he opened his shirt revealing his curly silverhair.

She said, 'That silver hair on your chest is proof enough for me,' and she processed my Social Security application.

When he got home, he excitedly told his wife about his experience at the Social Security office.

His wife said, 'You should have dropped your pants. You might have gotten disability allowance too.'