3UP campaign

[old leigh shrimper]

National League Launches 3UP Campaign - The Vanarama National League

All 72 National League clubs unite in plea to the EFL.

www.thenationalleague.org.uk

Not sure if this has been posted before or if a seperate thread on the subject is worthwhile.
Looks like there could be a vote in June to inroduce 3up for next season?...

UTB

 

[Supershrimper]

That was on here back in February

National League Clubs write to EFL demanding 3 up, 3 down

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c627ldxkdlgo

www.shrimperzone.com

Sadly don't think it will be this season. Seems they are waiting for the regulator to be in place and up and running before discussions are had. More likely around 27/28 season

 

[Maroon Blue]

National League Launches 3UP Campaign - The Vanarama National League

All 72 National League clubs unite in plea to the EFL.

www.thenationalleague.org.uk

Not sure if this has been posted before or if a seperate thread on the subject is worthwhile.
Looks like there could be a vote in June to inroduce 3up for next season?...

UTB

Fingers crossed, can’t see them putting it in force for next season though as too short notice. Season 26/27 yes, just do not understand that the EFL do not look at the positives. Which is making it easier for those that drop into NL to return to EFL.

 

[Boy_C]

One simple change I'd make now (rather than wait years for this 3UP campaign to bear any fruit) is simply to have top goes up, and then a more standard form of play-offs to make it fairer to those who finish 2nd and 3rd.

So, 2nd plays 5th, 3rd plays 4th, two-legged games, with the first semi-final taking place within seven days of the season ending.

I think it was quite unfair on York and FGR to have to wait so long for their games - definitely a factor in their performances (which was great for us and Oldham).

 

[Tommy2holes]

One simple change I'd make now (rather than wait years for this 3UP campaign to bear any fruit) is simply to have top goes up, and then a more standard form of play-offs to make it fairer to those who finish 2nd and 3rd.

So, 2nd plays 5th, 3rd plays 4th, two-legged games, with the first semi-final taking place within seven days of the season ending.

I think it was quite unfair on York and FGR to have to wait so long for their games - definitely a factor in their performances (which was great for us and Oldham).

Agreed

The system is a bit mental.

 

[Holy Joe]

One simple change I'd make now (rather than wait years for this 3UP campaign to bear any fruit) is simply to have top goes up, and then a more standard form of play-offs to make it fairer to those who finish 2nd and 3rd.

So, 2nd plays 5th, 3rd plays 4th, two-legged games, with the first semi-final taking place within seven days of the season ending.

I think it was quite unfair on York and FGR to have to wait so long for their games - definitely a factor in their performances (which was great for us and Oldham).

They could just squeeze the matches closer together - there were 10 days between our Gateshead and Rochdale matches!!!!

 

[danbowen]

The biggest issue with what York done is they done it as a victim and an individual club. What they should have done is got all of the non league teams to support it including Barnet and Oldham.

Furthermore, only back in the 21-22 season York won promotion via the playoffs after finishing 21 points behind second place Brackley. Massive double standards by them especially considering that was only 3/4 seasons ago.

 

[Exiled Shrimper]

One simple change I'd make now (rather than wait years for this 3UP campaign to bear any fruit) is simply to have top goes up, and then a more standard form of play-offs to make it fairer to those who finish 2nd and 3rd.

So, 2nd plays 5th, 3rd plays 4th, two-legged games, with the first semi-final taking place within seven days of the season ending.

I think it was quite unfair on York and FGR to have to wait so long for their games - definitely a factor in their performances (which was great for us and Oldham).

Since the extended play-offs were introduced in 2017/18, five of the eight promoted teams via the play-offs finished either second or third. Two finished fourth or fifth (so had a home eliminator round tie and away semi-final) and only Grimsby (sixth in 2021/22) have been promoted by playing away eliminator and semi-final ties. So, at least whilst it is only two up, it is a good way of extending the season for more clubs and, in general, the teams finishing 2nd or 3rd have had an advantage.

The issues this season were caused by the date(s) Wembley Stadium was available and, essentially, a decision to hold the final on 1st June, rather than - potentially - the first Bank Holiday weekend in May (as other weekends were unavailable through Non-League Finals Day, FA Cup, FA Women's Cup and EFL play-offs), which would've necessitated more midweek fixtures during the regular league season to enable the season to finish by 19th April. The eliminator round could then have taken place the following midweek and semi-finals the following weekend, which would mean the teams finishing 2nd or 3rd only had a 7, rather than 15/16 day, wait to play their first ties. This is what happened in each of the previous three seasons.

 

[Sandbach Shrimper]

I think it's only a matter of time before this happens. If you look at how the promoted teams from the NL have fared in League Two over recent years, it's clear the gap is getting smaller and smaller. There tends to be a sizeable gap between the top two/three in the NL and the rest - we saw it again this season and even more so two years ago when Notts County and Wrexham both got over 100 points, and County had to go through the play-offs, which luckily they won. Obviously we benefited from the current system this season but did we really deserve to go up ahead of York, who got 28 points more than us?

I would change it to two automatic spots and then play-offs between 3rd and 6th, like in the Championship and League One. Or one idea I've seen floated is doing what they do in Germany and some other European countries, where the third-placed team play the third-from-bottom team in L2 in a play-off. Would be interesting.

 

[Liam AAS]

I would change it to two automatic spots and then play-offs between 3rd and 6th, like in the Championship and League One. Or one idea I've seen floated is doing what they do in Germany and some other European countries, where the third-placed team play the third-from-bottom team in L2 in a play-off. Would be interesting.

I love this, I think they do it in Scotland too?

It would really demonstrate the strength in depth in NL and stop teams circling the drain at the bottom of L2 for yonks.

 

[Leigh_Seasider]

I love this, I think they do it in Scotland too?

It would really demonstrate the strength in depth in NL and stop teams circling the drain at the bottom of L2 for yonks.

Imagine Col Ewe vs Southend in one of these.

 

[NZamba Legend]

I love this, I think they do it in Scotland too?

It would really demonstrate the strength in depth in NL and stop teams circling the drain at the bottom of L2 for yonks.

Used to happen in football league too, first one or two seasons of playoffs in the 80s

 

[Danshrimper]

I would change it to two automatic spots and then play-offs between 3rd and 6th, like in the Championship and League One. Or one idea I've seen floated is doing what they do in Germany and some other European countries, where the third-placed team play the third-from-bottom team in L2 in a play-off. Would be interesting.

I love this, I think they do it in Scotland too?

It would really demonstrate the strength in depth in NL and stop teams circling the drain at the bottom of L2 for yonks.

Personally think this is an awful idea for a couple of reasons.

Firstly, why reward a team who have essentially failed and finished 3rd bottom with a big day out at Wembley and the chance to stay up at the expense of a team who have had a successful season and finished 3rd?

And then by removing any chance of play offs/promotion for teams finishing 4th and below. You effectively kill the season for most of the league by January/February time. 95% of games from February onwards would be dead rubbers.

This season, it’s been obvious who the top 3 would be for months. If this system had been in place, instead of the 9k attendances we were getting towards the end of the season. we would have been lucky to get 5k.

Clubs like Oldham, Rochdale, Halifax, Eastleigh & Altrincham would also presumably have seen a drop in attendances under this system.

Whilst the top 3 might not run away with it every season, it would still harm attendances in the long term. I don’t think we need to be making the financial situation even more difficult for clubs at this level.

 

[twobob]

I love this, I think they do it in Scotland too?

It would really demonstrate the strength in depth in NL and stop teams circling the drain at the bottom of L2 for yonks.

This might appeal to EFL clubs as not just another automatic relegation plus the opportunity to play in the final at Wembley (assuming the NL can get their act together and stage it in a timely fashion)

 

[Exiled Shrimper]

I love this, I think they do it in Scotland too?

It would really demonstrate the strength in depth in NL and stop teams circling the drain at the bottom of L2 for yonks.

There are three variations of this in Scotland. In all cases, the each play-off tie is two-legged with the higher-placed team having home advantage in the second leg (so no one-off big ground final).

Variant 1: Pyramid Play-Off - there's no automatic relegation from League Two in the Scottish League. The winners of the two regional tier five leagues (the Highland League and the Lowland League), play off for the opportunity to play the team that finishes bottom of League Two, with the winner of that tie playing in the league the following season.

Variant 2: Championship & League One Play-Offs: there's one automatic promotion/relegation spot from each division (only 10 teams per division in tiers two to four), with the team finishing second-bottom of the higher division joining the semi-final stage of the play-offs against the fourth-placed team, and second playing third, with the winners of those ties progressing to the final.

Variant 3: Premiership Play-Off: in this instance, the team finishing second-bottom in the Scottish Premiership goes straight to the final. Third place in the Championship plays fourth for the right to take on the team that finished second in an effective semi-final, and the winner of that tie plays the team that finished second-bottom in the Premiership for the right to play in that division the following season.

 

[dannypav]

I saw it written that the EFL wouldnt back the idea of 3 up , but unless they are completely blinkered , i think the idea would get support also from L2 teams.
They may need it themselves some time soon.

 

[Sandbach Shrimper]

Personally think this is an awful idea for a couple of reasons.

Firstly, why reward a team who have essentially failed and finished 3rd bottom with a big day out at Wembley and the chance to stay up at the expense of a team who have had a successful season and finished 3rd?

It wouldn't be at Wembley, it would be two legs home and away. That's how it works in other countries anyway.

Your other points are valid though, there are pros and cons to it compared to the traditional play-off system in this country. Although perhaps it would make the league more competitive knowing that you have to finish in the top three to get promoted.

 

[danbowen]

I think it's only a matter of time before this happens. If you look at how the promoted teams from the NL have fared in League Two over recent years, it's clear the gap is getting smaller and smaller. There tends to be a sizeable gap between the top two/three in the NL and the rest - we saw it again this season and even more so two years ago when Notts County and Wrexham both got over 100 points, and County had to go through the play-offs, which luckily they won. Obviously we benefited from the current system this season but did we really deserve to go up ahead of York, who got 28 points more than us?

I would change it to two automatic spots and then play-offs between 3rd and 6th, like in the Championship and League One. Or one idea I've seen floated is doing what they do in Germany and some other European countries, where the third-placed team play the third-from-bottom team in L2 in a play-off. Would be interesting.

The biggest issue i see with the 3rd place team playing a team at the bottom of league 2 is that if the top 3 run away with it in the NL early doors it makes the second half of the season proper naff and would affect clubs with lower attendances etc when there is nothing to play for. I dont dislike the idea i just think some of the negatives outweigh the positive especially considering if Lg2 teams win most the time you then have 2 up 2 down still effectively plus you lose big games out at Wembley ( you cant let 3rd bottom in the league play at Wembley)

 

[Ailsa Road Shrimper]

I’m not so sure the 3up will ever be implemented. The FA don’t seem interested in anything at our level. Neither would the EFL for obvious reasons. With all the noise around Wrexham over the last few years nothing changed on that front, so if it didn’t then I don’t think it ever will.

 

[Wingnut]

Never going to happen is it ,all the clubs know the rules it part and parcel of the system I’m afraid
Just update the small print saying that there is a high chance the you could finish at least 20 points clear and **** it up