2017 General Election thread

[Tangled up in Blue]

We're not talking about a democratic socialist though are we. We're talking about Corbyn. A hard left socialist who would quite happily see us back in the dark old days of the 70s. You cannot compare Corbyn to any other EU democratic socialist leader

FYI,the Labour party is a proud democratic socialist party and Jeremy Corbyn is its elected leader.

Labour holds regular meetings with other social democratic parties at EU level and will presumably continue to do so when the UK is no longer a member of the EU.

 

[Shrimper]

Anyone voting Independent in Southend here

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...f-fake-news-over-video-of-corbyn-ira-comments

This is what desperate political parties do.

 

[Uncle Leo]

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...f-fake-news-over-video-of-corbyn-ira-comments

This is what desperate political parties do.

What, continually post links from The Guardian?

 

[Gt Yarmouth Shrimper]

***. The very same promises were being made under Labour and Bliar for years and just like their promises May's will come to nothing. Just like the majority of all manifestos they are just words and a case of saying what you think the great British public want to hear. In reality, as has been proved by the last 40 years of changing governments very little changes. Everyone want's what's best for them and their family. Everyone wants to live that capitalistic dream whether they like to admit it or not.

Hypothetically speaking. you have £35k to spend of a new car. The choices are.

1. Spend £30k on the new car and give £5k to someone that's can't afford one himself
2. Spend the whole £35k on the car of your choice and sod the guy with bugger all.
3. Spend the £35k you've got and then put another £5k of extras on top because you want the latest it has to offer and sod the dept and the guy with nothing.

Some people do No3........Many people do No2.......No one does No1

That's the unfortunate reality we now all live in. It's a pretty poor example and not literal but I think makes my point. Do I agree with it. No, it's selfish, hubristic and does little to enhance society on a human level but do I embrace it? Hell yeah, Im a No2, just like millions and millions of others.

35K on a sodding car.
Not all of us are the way you are. You would consider me poor but I have everything I need and consider myself rich as I have everything I want and need
I am not knocking you at all but I consider myself to have morals. Why not do yourself a favour, why don't you buy yourself a 15K car and give the rest to a decent charity. I guarantee you'll feel so much better about yourself

 

[Billy Shears]

The last (and only) time I voted Labour was in 1983. Largely because I was young and angry rather than having any idea what was in their manifesto.
Since then I've voted for various other parties but never thought of voting Labour again. To my surprise I've found myself quite sympathetic to what they've been saying this time around and have warmed to Jeremy Corbyn as he campaign has gone on.
Admittedly part of this may be down to the Conservatives, and Theresa May especially, having such a poor campaign.
I'm not convinced Labour can solve all the country's problems - I think we're all going to have to pay a lot more tax sooner or later if the pressures on the NHS are going to be solved - but I do feel attracted to some of the stuff they say on the economy, public services and foreign policy.
The one big thing still holding me back from voting Labour is some of their supporters. There seems to be a lot of hate in people the further to the left they are - as much hate as there is in people on the far right in fact.

 

[Benfleet A1]

What, continually post links from The Guardian?

Can I ask, in the event of Labour winning, has anyone been lined up to continuely post links to The Telegraph and comment underneath 'I happen to agree'

I'd hate to see umpteen years of tedious trolling tradition ended.

 

[mattitouk]

I didn't know whether to post this on here or on the "what have you watched on TV" thread, but as it's more of a political topic, I thought it was more suited here. (Mods please move if applicable)

Anyway, Iv'e just watched the Question Time "Leaders Special" between Theresa May V Jeremy Corbyn (not in it's usual format)...... and as a still undecided voter (and will probably not vote for either of the two major parties come election day).

I must say though, IMO Jeremy Corbyn won the debate comfortably (with the exception of his opinion on Tridant & possibly zero hour contracts).

I find it strange that when Theresa May makes a press statement in front of a TV Camera, she comes across as strong and confident, but when questioned ad hock she comes across as un-decided, and it's the complete opposite with JC, sit him in a pre planned meeting in front of the media, he goes to pot, yet when in a quick fire debate like question time, he seems to be in he's comfort zone.

Anyway, did anyone else watch it? and what were your views of the outcome between the two in general? to keep it balanced (for an undecided voter like me) please give a pro & con from both politicians.

I will start it off:

TM:
+ Dealing with Brexit
- Nursing / Health

JC:
+ Raise in the living wage / more money in the NHS / more police
- Trident / Zero hour contracts /Corporation Tax

 

[callan]

I didn't know whether to post this on here or on the "what have you watched on TV" thread, but as it's more of a political topic, I thought it was more suited here. (Mods please move if applicable)

Anyway, Iv'e just watched the Question Time "Leaders Special" between Theresa May V Jeremy Corbyn (not in it's usual format)...... and as a still undecided voter (and will probably not vote for either of the two major parties come election day).

I must say though, IMO Jeremy Corbyn won the debate comfortably (with the exception of his opinion on Tridant & possibly zero hour contracts).

I find it strange that when Theresa May makes a press statement in front of a TV Camera, she comes across as strong and confident, but when questioned ad hock she comes across as un-decided, and it's the complete opposite with JC, sit him in a pre planned meeting in front of the media, he goes to pot, yet when in a quick fire debate like question time, he seems to be in he's comfort zone.

Anyway, did anyone else watch it? and what were your views of the outcome between the two in general? to keep it balanced (for an undecided voter like me) please give a pro & con from both politicians.

I will start it off:

TM:
+ Dealing with Brexit
- Nursing / Health

JC:
+ Raise in the living wage / more money in the NHS / more police
- Trident / Zero hour contracts /Corporation Tax

As an undecided voter (still!), I don't think watching has helped me in making a decision....Corbyn has some good ideas in his manifesto that came across well in the debate....National investment bank being a prime example, however he was a shambles on Trident and unconvincing on corporation Tax.

May was a lot more convincing on Brexit, but was all over the place on public sector pay increases, and the dementia tax plus of course unlike Corbyn has a record in Government to be judged on.

As to who won....Corbyn scored almost all of the goals....though I suspect he will be remembered for putting the ball in his own net over Trident.

 

[rigsby]

Anyone voting Independent in Southend here

I will be voting for Ron Woodley in Southend East.

 

[rigsby]

35K on a sodding car.
Not all of us are the way you are. You would consider me poor but I have everything I need and consider myself rich as I have everything I want and need
I am not knocking you at all but I consider myself to have morals. Why not do yourself a favour, why don't you buy yourself a 15K car and give the rest to a decent charity. I guarantee you'll feel so much better about yourself

Not one that will spend the money on a new BMW for £120,000 per year finance director, I hope.

 

[Gt Yarmouth Shrimper]

Not one that will spend the money on a new BMW for £120,000 per year finance director, I hope.

Thank you mrsblue:smile:

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

What, continually post links from The Guardian?

Ha! Try reading the link.FYI,I'm not even a Labour party member these days.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

http://www.bbc.com/news/election-2017-40139052

Anyone who votes Tory after that fully deserves what they'll get.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

http://www.bbc.com/news/election-2017-40141470

Tories "have no plans to raise income tax." Watch this space.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Can I ask, in the event of Labour winning, has anyone been lined up to continuely post links to The Telegraph and comment underneath 'I happen to agree'

I'd hate to see umpteen years of tedious trolling tradition ended.

Wouldn't enter any spelling-bee competitions any time soon,If I were you.:winking:

 

[OldBlueLady]

Corbyn is an orator, much like our own Phil Brown, doesn't necessarily mean he would be any good. May, well, she just isn't. She's no public school educated mouth piece like many previous (and current) top Tories, and she is no Maggie Thatcher when speaking publicly.

I'm obviously a Tory voter, but this election - which had seemed sewn up a few weeks back when it was announced - is slipping away because they're allowing Corbyn his head. Yes, their promises sound so good on paper, but what Labour fail to do spectacularly every time is explain exactly how they are going to sustain the changes they wish to put in place.

IF they were to win and put some of their plans in place, the top wage earners would simply move their assets abroad - or even move there themselves. You can't continue taxing the highest earners and think they will just roll over and let you. Same with companies, more and more would just move abroad so they wouldn't be eligible for our country's taxes.

The country would end up in deeper debt and of course, the Tories would be put back in to produce a recovery with everyone moaning about "belt tightening". It's the way things work.

Labour are playing a canny game, promising so much to the many gullible young who haven't voted before - or have maybe a few times - who are just seeing university fees cut and big promises that they don't really understand the implications of.

Apart from anything else, there are two huge reasons why I would not consider voting Labour here, firstly, there is no way I would want Diane Abbot anywhere near a cabinet post - can you imagine it? And secondly, I wouldn't want Corbyn in charge of our Brexit negotiations.

Us old farts have to get out in our droves and vote for the Blues on Thursday.

 

[Pubey]

Strange how people are so obsessed wth the incompetence of Abbott, but seem completely fine with Hammond, May, Johnson, Hunt et al. Or when you think about it maybe it isn't strange at all...

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Corbyn is an orator, much like our own Phil Brown, doesn't necessarily mean he would be any good. May, well, she just isn't. She's no public school educated mouth piece like many previous (and current) top Tories, and she is no Maggie Thatcher when speaking publicly.

I'm obviously a Tory voter, but this election - which had seemed sewn up a few weeks back when it was announced - is slipping away because they're allowing Corbyn his head.

Yes, their promises sound so good on paper, but what Labour fail to do spectacularly every time is explain exactly how they are going to sustain the changes they wish to put in place.

Labour's 2017 manifesto For the Many not the Few is of course,fully costed,unlike any of the Tory manifesto proposals.

IF

they were to win and put some of their plans in place, the top wage earners would simply move their assets abroad - or even move there themselves. You can't continue taxing the highest earners and think they will just roll over and let you. Same with companies, more and more would just move abroad so they wouldn't be eligible for our country's taxes

.

Labour is only proposing to increase taxation for the top 5/6 % of wage earners.The increase in Corporation tax proposed would still make the rate much lower than in the US and around about the average for the top EU countries.

The country would end up in deeper debt and of course, the Tories would be put back in to produce a recovery with everyone moaning about "belt tightening". It's the way things work.

Labour are playing a canny game, promising so much to the many gullible young who haven't voted before - or have maybe a few times - who are just seeing university fees cut and big promises that they don't really understand the implications of.

Don't you care about the future of young people? They're victims of an inequality gap,which they've done nothing to create and find it almost impossible to get on the housing ladder without parental help.

Apart from anything else, there are two huge reasons why I would not consider voting Labour here, firstly, there is no way I would want Diane Abbot anywhere near a cabinet post - can you imagine it? And secondly, [

B]I wouldn't want Corbyn in charge of our Brexit negotiations.[/B

]

Labour is arguing for tariff free access to the single market.Without it manufacturing and service industries in the UK will be hard hit.

Us old farts have to get out in our droves and vote for the Blues on Thursday.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

Corbyn is an orator, much like our own Phil Brown, doesn't necessarily mean he would be any good. May, well, she just isn't. She's no public school educated mouth piece like many previous (and current) top Tories, and she is no Maggie Thatcher when speaking publicly.

I'm obviously a Tory voter, but this election - which had seemed sewn up a few weeks back when it was announced - is slipping away because they're allowing Corbyn his head. Yes, their promises sound so good on paper, but what Labour fail to do spectacularly every time is explain exactly how they are going to sustain the changes they wish to put in place.

IF they were to win and put some of their plans in place, the top wage earners would simply move their assets abroad - or even move there themselves. You can't continue taxing the highest earners and think they will just roll over and let you. Same with companies, more and more would just move abroad so they wouldn't be eligible for our country's taxes.

The country would end up in deeper debt and of course, the Tories would be put back in to produce a recovery with everyone moaning about "belt tightening". It's the way things work.

Labour are playing a canny game, promising so much to the many gullible young who haven't voted before - or have maybe a few times - who are just seeing university fees cut and big promises that they don't really understand the implications of.

Apart from anything else, there are two huge reasons why I would not consider voting Labour here, firstly, there is no way I would want Diane Abbot anywhere near a cabinet post - can you imagine it? And secondly, I wouldn't want Corbyn in charge of our Brexit negotiations.

Us old farts have to get out in our droves and vote for the Blues on Thursday.

There is a lot to discuss there, but skipping the the end - Corbyn is an orator an embracer of discussion and has no burnt bridges with the other EU leaders. May is awkward and shaky in discussions, has started her EU stance with threats (and as she is still making u-turn after u-turn they may seem like idle threats) and seems to be ('seems' though may not be the reality) siding with the US as Trump seems to be offending the EU nations.

What makes you think she would negotiate a better deal than Corbyn?