The EU Referendum

[superblue24]

[video=youtube;JFt-pRIvL9E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFt-pRIvL9E[/video]

A very good watch if you have 10 mins to spare.

 

[Sandbach Shrimper]

It is also of course, highly significant, that the current level of immigration into the UK, is higher from non-EU countries, than it is from the EU itself.

That gap is narrowing though and with countries like Turkey, Albania, Macedonia likely to join the EU in the future, EU migration is only going to increase if we stay in.

https://fullfact.org/immigration/eu-migration-and-uk/

This is about having control over who comes into the country, being able to protect our borders and letting people in based on their skills and what they want to contribute rather than whether they come from an EU or non-EU country.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

You're probably correct in that I would have had something to say if he had shared a stage and argued to remain in a club he has argued against almost all his political life. However, he is the leader of the opposition and his stance is to remain - he is all but invisible and letting the right wing run both camps. The average bloke on the street will be wondering which tory do we least like come the vote because we aren't hearing anything from the opposition parties.
If the vote is leave then he will have to ask himself if he could have done more in his position, unless of course he wants a leave vote all along.

I'm old enough to remember the '75 referendum campaign.You certainly didn't see people like Tony Benn or Michael Foot, sharing a platform with Tories then, in the out campaign.

Wilson,of course,refused to campaign at all on this issue.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

That gap is narrowing though and with countries like Turkey, Albania, Macedonia likely to join the EU in the future, EU migration is only going to increase if we stay in.

https://fullfact.org/immigration/eu-migration-and-uk/

This is about having control over who comes into the country, being able to protect our borders and letting people in based on their skills and what they want to contribute rather than whether they come from an EU or non-EU country.

Then how do you explain that net immigration from non-EU countries, (which we do have control over), is currently higher than net immigration from the EU? :unsure:

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

Then how do you explain that net immigration from non-EU countries, (which we do have control over), is currently higher than net immigration from the EU? :unsure:

Non EU migration figures include students from the likes of the USA and Russia who come in number.
It also includes doctors/nurses/IT persons who are actively recruited from non EU countries for their skill (Phillipino nurses?, Indian doctors etc) that I am sure you are aware of.
Also there are the Oz specialist bar staff for London's bar scene and with direct familial claims.
Do the maths and it adds up, not many workers in that lot though for the minimum wage market so loved by the rich business owning/share holding Remain brigades.

AND lastly it includes Asylum seeking migrants from Afghan, Syria, Libya (remember they are outside EU?).

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

Non EU migration figures include students from the likes of the USA and Russia who come in number. Really?
It also includes doctors/nurses/IT persons who are actively recruited from non EU countries for their skill (Phillipino nurses?, Indian doctors etc) that I am sure you are aware of.
Also there are the Oz specialist bar staff for London's bar scene and with direct familial claims. (Ha)!
Do the maths and it adds up, not many workers in that lot though for the minimum wage market so loved by the rich business owning/share holding Remain brigades.

AND lastly it includes Asylum seeking migrants from Afghan, Syria, Libya (remember they are outside EU?).

You're missing the point.We can actually control these figures if we want to (ie cut them).Why aren't we doing just that?

Are you sure that asylum seekers are included in these figures and not separately?

In any case, as someone's who's directly benefitted from the free movement of labour in the EU, (along with all the rest of my family), I'm very much in favour of it.

I'd like to see some official figures for immigration from other EU countries, which show that the majority are doing minimum wages jobs.I suspect these figures don't exist.

 

[MK Shrimper]

I am amazed that nearly 1/2 million people left it to the very end to register to vote. :nope:

 

[Shrimpers are Magic]

I'm old enough to remember the '75 referendum campaign.You certainly didn't see people like Tony Benn or Michael Foot, sharing a platform with Tories then, in the out campaign.

Wilson,of course,refused to campaign at all on this issue.

That was over 40 years ago for crying out loud. Didn't Corbyn promise a "NEW" kind of politics? If he agrees with a remain vote then he should show a united front (like everyone else appears to be doing) instead of acting like a spoilt child refusing to play with the other kids.
By all accounts the vote is likely to be very close, don't you agree the leader of the opposition should be out there being heard instead of leaving it to others in his party to do his job for him?

 

[Shrimpers are Magic]

I am amazed that nearly 1/2 million people left it to the very end to register to vote. :nope:

Totally agree and I don't agree with changing the rules to accommodate those who are not registered.
You had your chance - tough luck if you ask me.

 

[MK Shrimper]

Totally agree and I don't agree with changing the rules to accommodate those who are not registered.
You had your chance - tough luck if you ask me.

It was a system that went down, remember you might miss out on some Brexit votes as well. :winking:

 

[Uncle Leo]

That was over 40 years ago for crying out loud. Didn't Corbyn promise a "NEW" kind of politics? If he agrees with a remain vote then he should show a united front (like everyone else appears to be doing) instead of acting like a spoilt child refusing to play with the other kids.
By all accounts the vote is likely to be very close, don't you agree the leader of the opposition should be out there being heard instead of leaving it to others in his party to do his job for him?

I thought Rafael Behr hit the nail on the head in The Guardian when he said this of Corbyn and the remain campaign...

"He endorses the EU with the lugubrious evangelism of a dentist recommending root canal treatment."

 

[rigsby]

You're missing the point.We can actually control these figures if we want to (ie cut them).Why aren't we doing just that?

Are you sure that asylum seekers are included in these figures and not separately?

In any case, as someone's who's directly benefitted from the free movement of labour in the EU, (along with all the rest of my family), I'm very much in favour of it.

I'd like to see some official figures for immigration from other EU countries, which show that the majority are doing minimum wages jobs.I suspect these figures don't exist.

You lived and worked in Spain before they were even in the EU.

If we vote out the best people will still be able to come to the UK and us Brits will still be able to live and work in Europe, they always have and always will.

Having the right to pick who we want will make us much safer, wealthier and more attractive to the best immigrants once the EU fails. Which of course is inevitable once the far right get power in some countries in Eastern Europe.

 

[Tangled up in Blue]

You lived and worked in Spain before they were even in the EU.

That's right and Spain's entry has simplified so many bureaucratic matters.

If we vote out the best people will still be able to come to the UK and us Brits will still be able to live and work in Europe, they always have and always will.

See above comment.

Having the right to pick who we want will make us much safer, wealthier and more attractive to the best immigrants once the EU fails. Which of course is inevitable once the far right get power in some countries in Eastern Europe.

Your opinion that the EU will fail and the far right will "get power in some countries in Eastern Europe" is just that, ie an opinion.

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

Here is an idea, question for the Remainers.
Carney, Canadian, is a migrant (non EU) working in the UK, and in charge of The Bank of England. Would we (collective for UK citizens) trust a French/German/Italian etc to be in charge of such an important UK financial public organisation?
I believe the answer, from the majority is NO; yet The EU is effectively able to demand any money it wants from the UK and be accountable to no person or government, elected or otherwise AND can spend that money without having it's accounts audited.
Why is this madness (UK in the EU) allowed to continue?



Yes for the Common Market, No for the Federal Republic of Europe/Greater Deutchland.

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

You're probably correct in that I would have had something to say if he had shared a stage and argued to remain in a club he has argued against almost all his political life. However, he is the leader of the opposition and his stance is to remain - he is all but invisible and letting the right wing run both camps. The average bloke on the street will be wondering which tory do we least like come the vote because we aren't hearing anything from the opposition parties.
If the vote is leave then he will have to ask himself if he could have done more in his position, unless of course he wants a leave vote all along.

YouGov poll in London asking if you trust the claims made on the EU:

Cameron - trust 18%. No trust 69%
Corbyn - trust 32%. No trust 50%

Now that would shed a different light on him not sharing a stage with Cameron and making statements on the EU in the way he chooses. Avoiding guilt by association - something Cameron among others have held against him.

(Incidentally Farage's ratings were 18/68, Johnson's 26/60 and Khan's 39/41)

 

[Shrimpers are Magic]

It was a system that went down, remember you might miss out on some Brexit votes as well. :winking:

I'm sure it was working last week and the week before that as well - like you I don't get why so many left it to the last minute to register.

 

[Shrimpers are Magic]

YouGov poll in London asking if you trust the claims made on the EU:

Cameron -%
trust 18%. No trust 69%
Corbyn - trust 32%. No trust 50
Now that would shed a different light on him not sharing a stage with Cameron and making statements on the EU in the way he chooses. Avoiding guilt by association - something Cameron among others have held against him.

(Incidentally Farage's ratings were 18/68, Johnson's 26/60 and Khan's 39/41)

But he has had next to nothing to say on the matter so as pointless polls go...

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

But he has had next to nothing to say on the matter so as pointless polls go...

how much is there to say? If he has made a couple of big speeches that are deemed to have contained no lies then he will be more trusted than those going from one event to another spouting any old crap to trick people into voting their way.

He has a different approach and there are a few signs it is catching on.

 

[Massimo Giovanni]

NOW THEN, NOW THEN, ATTENTION PLEASE!!!!

I have asked about the EU's budget & accounts several times on this thread and how it has never been audited.
And also stated that is because it is a corrupt, badly run and bankrupt organisation which similar to other mafia cartels is now issuing threats.

My point is this has only had "likes" from posters in reply BUT not a whisper of comment from any of the Remainers.
C'mon Barney, A.S.S et al tell us why the central ethos/corner stone of the EU is not worthy of comment. :net:


I suspect below to be the answer.
:tumbleweed::tumbleweed::tumbleweed::tumbleweed:

 

[Another Surrey Shrimper]

NOW THEN, NOW THEN, ATTENTION PLEASE!!!!

I have asked about the EU's budget & accounts several times on this thread and how it has never been audited.
And also stated that is because it is a corrupt, badly run and bankrupt organisation which similar to other mafia cartels is now issuing threats.

My point is this has only had "likes" from posters in reply BUT not a whisper of comment from any of the Remainers.
C'mon Barney, A.S.S et al tell us why the central ethos/corner stone of the EU is not worthy of comment. :net:


I suspect below to be the answer.
:tumbleweed::tumbleweed::tumbleweed::tumbleweed:

I can't speak for Barna but I know nothing about auditing of EU budgets but to be fair I know nothing about the auditing of SUFC budgets either.
I am actively political and I have spent zero hours campaigning on the referendum and lots of hours campaigning at the most recent general and mayoral elections. I don't have strong opinions on the EU but we are given one of two options and I'm picking one for reasons I've stated.
We are not being given information of any worth on the whole so I know little about EU budgets if we stay and know little about UK budgets if we leave. The only thing I know is that I trust the powers that be to keep the status quo more than I trust them to manage whole scale changes. That's all really - I'm voting for the least amount of damage option.